Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed: Revised Edition

Ap History: A description of my opinon of the book

I thought that the book Collapse: How societies choose to fail or succeed was an exellent read and book. Collapse makes you rethink about our world and the ancient world, including how civilizations even our own civilization, with modern technology and advanced medicine, can still fall. The information provided in the book was very provocative. The book was overall an exellent read from the beginning to end because of how the information was conveied. Jared diamond keeps the book an interesitng book by telling the information in a non-lecturing way, and more of an intellectual creative way. Diamond is able to show how different societies and civilizations fall or succeed by not only using examples like Easter Island from the past, but also mondern Montana from today. These thoughts, along with how they are presented make this book a great read for students, teachers, professors, and people who enjoy reading about history in a new provocative way.
Jared Diamond is able to complete his purpose very effectivley. Jared Diamond is able to complete his purpose by breaking the book into different parts using effective organization. The book is broken into different parts. Part One is about Modern Montana which talks about the vunlerablities in Montana's social and political frameworks. Parr two discusses the old societies of Easter, Pitcairn and Henderson Islands, the Anasazi, Maya, vikings,and Norse Greenland. Part three discussess modern socities in Africa, the Dominican Republic and Hati, China, and Austraila. Finnally part four summarizes why all of these socities fell or succeeded, or how they may or may not fall. All of the analysis of these socities revolve aroud five key reasons. The reasons are envriomental damage, climate, change, hostile neighbors, frinedly trade partners, and how socities respond to their own, unique environmental challenges. With this style of organization Jared Diamond is able to complete his purpose by continually revist the point of his five point frame work as to why the particular society failed or succeeded. Since Diamond was able to successfully created his purpose throught out the book, the book made more sense and without out the framework the book would have been uncomprehensiable and impossable to read and understand.

4 out of 4 people found this review helpful.

Collapsing under the weight of it

Everyone I know seems to have been blown away by this book. Having studies anthropology in grad school, I had a hard time finding much that was really all that original. In addition, Mr, Diamond seems to be from the grand ivory tower tradition of needing to back up his assertions with examples ad nauseum - there is really nothing, in terms of actual ideas, that couldn't have been conveyed in a book 100 pages long, with efficient references to the necessary examples required for depth and legitimacy. Guns, Germs and Steel left me feeling the same way - that I just spent way too much time reading about concepts that I should have been able to digest in an evening.

2 out of 2 people found this review helpful.

Good and bad points - approach with open, critical mind

Diamond uses a broad selection of societies, both historical and contemporary, to advance his thesis that most societies collapse primarily due to environmental causes. However in some instances, I think that he overstates the impact that human mismanagement has on the collapses. For example, when describing why the Norse floundered in Greenland after 500 years there he largely attributes it to their unwillingness to let go of their traditional agrarian values in lieu of adopting the Inuit values. It is quite possible that the defining cause of collapse is that the environment in Greenland was simply too harsh to support that many settlers and one of the recurring droughts was simply too severe to be survived. In other words, they shouldn't have settled there to begin with. Instead of criticizing the Norse for ONLY surviving for 500 years instead of say 1,000 years maybe we should be patting them on the back for managing to last longer than 400 years. A far more critical problem (for me at least) is that in three places in the book he speaks approvingly of China's tough policy on population control. At one point he explicitly acknowledges that the policy is based on forcible abortions and sterilizations of women. Whether one is pro-life or pro-choice, it is tough to say that forcibly strapping a woman down and aborting her fetus and sterilizing her against her wishes is a good thing. It's barbaric. Towards the end of the book, when he is making policy suggestions he refers to the famous bet between Julian Simon and Paul Ehrlich and takes a gratuitious slam at Simon (who died last year and is unable to defend himself). Sure enough, as I read the acknowledgements I came across Paul Ehrlich's name. The slam on Simon was unnecessary and not germane to the book. Another problem arises when he discusses the LA riots and some other aspects of life in LA. I happened to be living in downtown LA during the riots and I had the experience of watching the city burning from the roof of my apartment building. His comments [for example criticizing the wealthy for 'living in gated communities, drinking bottled water, using private security guards and sending their children to private schools'], which were not strictly in support of his thesis, displayed a reliance on the same standard reactionary Liberal dogma. That reduces my inclination to accept his other conclusions because it tends to amplify the possibility that they will be based on a biased interpretation of the facts. One interestingly unexpected point was when he devoted a few pages to extolling Chevron's behavior in Papua New Guinea. Although I bet Diamond would be opposed to oil drilling in ANWR (like most environmentalists), I will use his Chevron-Papua New Guinea pages to lobby Congress in FAVOR of drilling in ANWR. It's a perfect example of how we can successfully drill for oil without disrupting nature! Although there are a number of places where Diamond was not successful at stifling some of his more 'Liberal' instincts, I am intelligent enough to make my own conclusions. The book has a number of good points and it was successful at increasing my sensitivity to the environment. He would count that as a 'win' I am sure.

2 out of 2 people found this review helpful.

popular reading

Jared Diamond has a popular thesis about the emergence of civilizations. The idea that the environment is the predominant factor obscures the role of human nature in history. An explanation of the world civilizations cannot be reduced to the environment. Human nature, greed, war and conquest are the most dominant themes shaping civilizations. It has for thousand of years of human evolution.

2 out of 6 people found this review helpful.

Fascinating

What a great book! Every time I put it down I couldn't wait to get back to it.

RapidVisa

1 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Over-rated, pretentious and conventional

Jared Diamond is Professor of Geography and Environmental Health Sciences at the University of California, Los Angeles. He writes, "This book employs the comparative method to understand societal collapses to which environmental problems contribute. My previous book (Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies) had applied the comparative method to the opposite problem: the differing rates of buildup of human societies on different continents over the last 13,000 years."

Part One looks at the environmental problems of modern Montana, Part Two at some failed societies - Easter Island, Pitcairn Island, the Anasazi civilisation in the US Southwest, the Maya, and Norse Greenland. Part Three looks at five modern societies, Rwanda, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, China and Australia, Part Four at the lessons.

He shows how people have in the past inadvertently destroyed the resources on which their societies depended, by "deforestation and habitat destruction, soil problems (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses), water management problems, overhunting, overfishing, effects of introduced species on native species, human population growth, and increased per-capita impact of people."

Now there are four new threats: "human-caused climate change, buildup of toxic chemicals in the environment, energy shortages, and full human utilization of the Earth's photosynthetic capacity." Diamond outlines "a five-point framework of possible contributing factors that I now consider in trying to understand any putative environmental collapse. Four of those factors - environmental damage, climate change, hostile neighbours, and friendly trade partners - may or may not prove significant for a particular society. The fifth set of factors - the society's responses to its environmental problems - always proves significant."

Currently, some countries are indeed depleting their forests, wetlands, coral reefs, wild fish stocks (he fails to mention the EU's disastrous Common Fisheries Policy), species, farmland soil, freshwater underground aquifers and fossil fuels. But Diamond wrongly asserts that environmental problems are 'accelerating exponentially'. This is not so: for example, through good forest management, Europe's forest area is growing by about 0.5 million hectares a year.

He notes the conflict between the short-term interests of those in power and society's long-term interests, writing, "what makes money for a business, at least in the short run, may be harmful for society as a whole." But he defends capitalism's most powerful bodies, the multinational corporations, while admitting that profit not welfare drives all their activities.

The logic of his argument leads him to call for long-term planning and a reconsideration of our core values, but he never says a word against capitalism and never mentions Cuba. Yet Oxfam's Duncan Green wrote, "As of 2003, Cuba was the only country in the world that managed to live within its environmental footprint while achieving high levels of human development. This was probably due to its unique combination of sound environmental management, excellent health and education provision, and an inability to generate sustained growth in the market economy." (From poverty to power, 2008, page 114.)

1 out of 9 people found this review helpful.

A sweeping history of failing societies

In this fascinating, surprising study, Pulitzer Prize winner Jared Diamond examines how and why some societies fail while others thrive. Diamond makes this history of failed societies into a page-turner, while resisting the urge to oversimplify. He unflinchingly examines cannibalism and mass murder in the hellish downfalls of Easter Island and Rwanda. Yet, he also outlines hope-inspiring successes in New Guinea, Japan and the Dominican Republic. This fat tome is quite engrossing, though in spots Diamond shows an academic¿s weakness for repetition and caveats. Even so, this compelling classic deservedly has spent a long time on the bestseller lists. getAbstract recommends it to anyone who hopes to understand how human societies have gone wrong ¿ and right.

1 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Well worth the read! It changed my every day life!

Collapse is a book that has changed my every day life, with a greater focus & more frequent 'second-thoughts' regarding my actions & their affect to not only our economy but more so to our wordly environment. The book is compelling & creates an awareness well beyond what you'll find in any TV show or even documentary. Simply because of the broad range of topics covered & their relation to today & the future, does it really speak to the heart. The book includes so much information that it shouldn't be surprising if there are parts that speak more to the reader than others. However, cover to cover, it's full of critical information that, in my opinion, should be required knowledge of people all across the world.

1 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Regret purchasing this book

I don't even know what to say, I read the first couple chapters found several blatant lies and tossed the book on the floor. From what I got out of the book is that he has an agenda of stopping the human race from harming the environment, because you know that's how societies failed in the past.

I'd suggest buying a book that was written by someone who actually studies civilizations/history. You know instead of a geography professor.

I rate this book: Complete failure.

Almost as good as Thomas Sowell.

But not quite.

0 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Great Book

Definitely worth reading.

This should be mandatory reading for all politicians.

This is a well researched and well composed book. A little slow at first, but it sets the stage. This book is darn scary.

0 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Fascinating Book!

It was an amazing page turner and actually had be eating bone marrow (you'll get it when you read it).

0 out of 1 people found this review helpful.

Eye-opening

A very comprehensive and easy to read account of environmental issues.

A great read

I read this book a few months ago and may I say it was very informative and an eye opener. A great read if you want to learn about past socities have failed... and maybe even how ours may...

Great Book

I enjoyed it, unlike some of the other reviews I found it to be more than expected. The Easter Island chapter alone if worth the cost of the book.

If I were an environmental wonk, I would certainly give Jared Diamond's 2004 classic five stars for the weaving of history, science and great storytelling into a compelling read. But, I was expecting more than an ecological lens...

The analogy of how societies collapse and how communities collapse was unavoidable for me. If I were an environmental wonk, I would certainly give Jared Diamond's 2004 classic five stars for the weaving of history, science and great storytelling into a compelling read. But since I was expecting more than an ecological lens, I came away with a feeling of being slightly short-changed in trying to fully understand the subtitle: "how societies choose to fail or succeed."

Having said that, I must say that Diamond certainly gave us, as he calls it, a "road map" to better understand society/community collapse from varied perspectives. This is perhaps most topically done by his discussion midway through the book of the contrasting realities on the island of Hispanola between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. He demonstrates the sharp dichotomy between the two societies even before the recent earthquake, which has devastated Haiti. Positioning himself on the mountain ridge which forms part of the border between the two countries, he describes the view west into Haiti as one of denuded forests and barren landscape. By simply turning 180 degrees you can see the lush forest of the Dominican Republic. In answering the question -- How can two societies sharing the same island have such dramatically different outcomes? -- Jared Diamond gives glimpses of the applicability of his frame beyond the environmental.

One of the most compelling images Diamond summons for us is the thought of what would have gone through the mind of the native felling that last palm tree on Easter Island -- once a island rich in old growth palm and other forests and now a treeless wind-scape. Diamond moves us from the retrospective question: what was he thinking? to an excellent description of how this last act was not one of individual intention or ignorance but rather the last piece in a failure of group decision making.

These failures in group decision making rest broadly on either conflict of interest or group dynamics. For which the author describes three factors: (1) groups fail to anticipate a problem before it arises; (2) groups fail to perceive a problem that has already arisen, and, finally, (3) groups fail to even attempt to solve a problem even after it has been perceived. Though the author is nearly silent on many of the contemporary issues (beyond climate change) to which this framing would be instructive -- education, health care, terrorism, economics -- that doesn't prevent his readers from the application. And I think communities would be well served by doing just that.

Very informative, but not the book for me.

When picking up this book the title drew me in. Another thing that drew me in was the cover of an Aztec monument. Unfortunately, the title mislead me into thinking it would be about societies forced to eat each other for lack of food, or war tactics which lead to men dying. When reading the prologue, I was informed that my fantasy of a book was non existent. Instead, in the prologue, I read things about families in Montana and his enjoyment for fly-fishing. Not something you would expect from a book of that title. This was not the ideal book for me, and it being 592 pages wasn't a good asset since I had limited time to read it. For some reason, I decided to persevere in hope that it would be a book that would get better as you get into it. By the time I had gotten into the actual book I realized most of the things he talks about have to do with the environment, such as taking away all our resources, not about war. I didn't think this made sense at all because in our history class we had learned so much about how civilizations like Rome and China whose corruption within the society would lead to their downfall. Instead he talks about civilizations like Easter Island, the Maya, and Anasazi. All of which didn't succeed due to some type of environmental damage.
I would recommend this book to someone 18 or older because of his boring ideas of how societies are and have been making themselves collapse. The most interesting portion of the book in my opinion is when he talks about possible factors of collapse in the future. That isn't saying much though because it could put most people to sleep, including me.

0 out of 4 people found this review helpful.

Favorite book

This is honestly my favorite book. Jared Diamond writes in a way that will get you thinking about everything in this world with regards to the environment and history. He explains the consequences of good and bad environmental management. Also, this book stems towards the idea of long term survival in this ever-changing world.

Collapse of Civilization ESS-210

This book is an amazing piece. The case studies that are discussed in the book were the main topics in a class my college offers in Huntsville, Alabama. I am a Earth Space System Sciences major at UAHuntsville, and there was a class offered named "Collapse of Civilization" in which Jared Diamonds book Collapse of Civilization: How Societies Choose to Fail and Succeed was the course text. My professor Dr. Tom Sever, whom is a retired Archeologist of NASA, teaches this class and offers some hands on critical information in conjunction with the text. This book is one of the most amazing accounts of Failed and Succeeding Societies in History. Jared Diamond does an immaculate job at presenting factual information along with strong theories and liable investigations and research in his book!

I suggest everyone take a course that relates to the topics in this book because it makes you become more aware of the mistakes that we continually make throughout history even with realistic data.
I also wrote a final term paper for this Class and with the book as my main source of information along with some class notes; i was able to get an A. If you have not noticed by now I am not a English major for i have many grammatical and mechanical problems in my writing, but my presented theories and information that supports my theories are strong enough to offer a valid arguement.

I will be glad to offer my paper to anyone whom wants to critique it and resubmit it back to me with more information: My email address is

Cruz.Dashiell@yahoo.com

Please feel free to leave any feedback and ask to use my essay as a reference.