Execution: The Discipline of Getting Things Doneby Larry Bossidy, Ram Charan
Larry Bossidy is one of the world’s most acclaimed CEOs, a man with few peers who has a track record for delivering results. Ram Charan is a legendary advisor to senior executives and boards of directors, a man
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The book that shows how to get the job done and deliver results . . . whether you’re running an entire company or in your first management job
Larry Bossidy is one of the world’s most acclaimed CEOs, a man with few peers who has a track record for delivering results. Ram Charan is a legendary advisor to senior executives and boards of directors, a man with unparalleled insight into why some companies are successful and others are not. Together they’ve pooled their knowledge and experience into the one book on how to close the gap between results promised and results delivered that people in business need today.
After a long, stellar career with General Electric, Larry Bossidy transformed AlliedSignal into one of the world’s most admired companies and was named CEO of the year in 1998 by Chief Executive magazine. Accomplishments such as 31 consecutive quarters of earnings-per-share growth of 13 percent or more didn’t just happen; they resulted from the consistent practice of the discipline of execution: understanding how to link together people, strategy, and operations, the three core processes of every business.
Leading these processes is the real job of running a business, not formulating a “vision” and leaving the work of carrying it out to others. Bossidy and Charan show the importance of being deeply and passionately engaged in an organization and why robust dialogues about people, strategy, and operations result in a business based on intellectual honesty and realism.
The leader’s most important job—selecting and appraising people—is one that should never be delegated. As a CEO, Larry Bossidy personally makes the calls to check references for key hires. Why? With the right people in the right jobs, there’s a leadership gene pool that conceives and selects strategies that can be executed. People then work together to create a strategy building block by building block, a strategy in sync with the realities of the marketplace, the economy, and the competition. Once the right people and strategy are in place, they are then linked to an operating process that results in the implementation of specific programs and actions and that assigns accountability. This kind of effective operating process goes way beyond the typical budget exercise that looks into a rearview mirror to set its goals. It puts reality behind the numbers and is where the rubber meets the road.
Putting an execution culture in place is hard, but losing it is easy. In July 2001 Larry Bossidy was asked by the board of directors of Honeywell International (it had merged with AlliedSignal) to return and get the company back on track. He’s been putting the ideas he writes about in Execution to work in real time.
According to the authors, execution is built on three basic blocks. The first block is composed of seven essential leadership behaviors. These are:
- Know your people and your business.
- Insist on realism.
- Set clear goals and priorities.
- Follow through.
- Reward the doers.
- Expand people's capabilities.
- Know yourself.
The next building block of execution involves creating the framework for cultural change within an organization. A culture is a group of people who share the same values, beliefs, and norms of behavior. The authors write that values need to be reinforced by the people at the highest levels of the company. People's beliefs are conditioned by training, experience, what they hear inside and outside about the company's prospects, and their perceptions of what leaders are saying and doing. The authors explain that beliefs can only be changed when new evidence persuades them that they are false. Behaviors are beliefs turned into action, and are what deliver results.
A company's competitive advantage depends on the behavioral norms of how people work together. To improve how people work together, and to change other behaviors, the authors write, rewards must be linked to performance. They write that a business's culture defines what gets appreciated, respected and rewarded. The authors explain that if a company wants to create a culture of change, it must reward and promote people for execution.
The authors write that the third building block of execution is based on the job that no leader should delegate. This is the task of finding the right people and putting them in the right places. The authors explain that this depends on being systematic and consistent when interviewing applicants, appraising employees, and developing employees by providing useful feedback.
Once these three building blocks are in place, a solid foundation has been build on which core processes can be operated and managed efficiently. The authors write that the most important of these core processes is the people process. Since the people in an organization make judgments about markets, create strategies based on those judgments, and translate those strategies into operations, if the right people are not in place, the potential of a business will never be realized. The authors write that the key to finding the right people lies in whether individuals can handle the jobs of the future. Expertise in appraising and choosing the right people is developed through consistency of practice.
The next core process explored by the authors is the strategy process. This process is based on linking people with operations so customer preference can be won, sustainable competitive advantage can be created, and shareholders can get paid. According to the authors, a strategic plan should define a business's direction and position the organization to move in that direction. The authors write that this plan must start with identifying and defining the critical issues behind the strategy, and linking this strategy to people will add realism to it. The authors devote a chapter of Execution to the details of conducting a strategic review.
The operations process makes the link between strategy and people. The authors explain that an operating plan provides the path on which people can take the business where it wants to go. This process breaks long-term output into short-term targets. To meet these targets, the authors add, people must make decisions and integrate them across the organization, putting reality behind the numbers. The authors write that the leader is primarily responsible for overseeing the seamless transition from strategy to operations, setting operational goals, and leading operating reviews that bring people together around the operating plan.
Why Soundview Likes This Book
The authors of Execution get to the heart of a new theory of leadership and organization and provide crucial advice about how to improve the links between people, strategy and operations. By offering leaders ways with which they can improve individual processes, the authors create a detailed roadmap by which leaders can master the discipline of execution. Breaking down their ideas into succinct and vital components, and using relevant examples from years of experience, they reveal many facets of operational excellence that can be applied to any business to create a clearer path to improved performance. Copyright (c) 2002 Soundview Executive Book Summaries
—Michael Dell, chairman and CEO, Dell Computer Corp.
“Good practical insight and advice on managing for results at firms of any size. Execution is key, and this book clearly explains what it means and how it brings together the critical elements of any organization—its people, strategies, and operations.” —L. R. Raymond, chairman and CEO, Exxon Mobil
“The best-thought-out plans in the world aren’t worth the paper they’re written on if you can’t pull them off. And that’s what this book is all about. Execution: The Discipline of Getting Things Done is well written and gives sound, practical advice about how to make things happen. It is well worth the reading.” —Ralph S. Larsen, chairman and CEO, Johnson & Johnson
“Larry Bossidy recognizes how execution in a business defines the true greatness of a company. He captures a lifetime of building winning formulas and puts them in a simple and practical context for executives at any level. Read it!” —Ivan Seidenberg, president and co–chief executive officer, Verizon
“For those managers who have struggled to make it happen, fix a problem, get it done—or otherwise transform winning strategies into genuine results—here’s the missing medicine from two who know from long experience what works and what doesn’t. Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan offer a compelling leadership prescription, and it comes down to realism, discipline, and above all, great execution.”
—Michael Useem, professor of management and director of the Center for Leadership and Change, Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
“Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan define the true meaning of leadership from an implementation point of view. Larry is the expert on productivity in the world of business, and this book demonstrates how leadership is the key to achieving ongoing financial success.” —Richard Schroeder, cofounder of Six Sigma Academy
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The Gap Nobody Knows
The CEO was sitting in his office late one evening, looking tired and drained. He was trying to explain to a visitor why his great strategic initiative had failed, but he couldn't figure out what had gone wrong.
"I'm so frustrated," he said. "I got the group together a year ago, people from all the divisions. We had two off-site meetings, did benchmarking, got the metrics. McKinsey helped us. Everybody agreed with the plan. It was a good one, and the market was good.
"This was the brightest team in the industry, no question about it. I assigned stretch goals. I empowered them-gave them the freedom to do what they needed to do. Everybody knew what had to be done. Our incentive system is clear, so they knew what the rewards and penalties would be. We worked together with high energy. How could we fail?
"Yet the year has come to an end, and we missed the goals. They let me down; they didn't deliver the results. I have lowered earnings estimates four times in the past nine months. We've lost our credibility with the Street. I have probably lost my credibility with the board. I don't know what to do, and I don't know where the bottom is. Frankly, I think the board may fire me."
Several weeks later the board did indeed fire him.
This story-it's a true one-is the archetypal story of the gap that nobody knows. It's symptomatic of the biggest problem facing corporations today. We hear lots of similar stories when we talk to business leaders. They're played out almost daily in the press, when it reports on companies that should be succeeding but aren't: Aetna, AT&T, BritishAirways, Campbell Soup, Compaq, Gillette, Hewlett-Packard, Kodak, Lucent Technologies, Motorola, Procter & Gamble, Xerox, and many others.
These are good companies. They have smart CEOs and talented people, they have inspiring visions, and they bring in the best consultants. Yet they, and many other companies as well, regularly fail to produce promised results. Then when they announce the shortfall, investors dump their stocks and enormous market value is obliterated. Managers and employees are demoralized. And increasingly, boards are forced to dump the CEOs.
The leaders of all the companies listed above were highly regarded when they were appointed-they seemed to have all of the right qualifications. But they all lost their jobs because they didn't deliver what they said they would. In the year 2000 alone, forty CEOs of the top two hundred companies on Fortune's 500 list were removed-not retired but fired or made to resign. When 20 percent of the most powerful business leaders in America lose their jobs, something is clearly wrong. This trend continued in 2001 and will clearly be in evidence in 2002.
In such cases it's not just the CEO who suffers-so do the employees, alliance partners, shareholders, and even customers. And it's not just the CEO whose shortcomings create the problem, though of course he or she is ultimately responsible.
What is the problem? Is it a rough business environment? Yes. Whether the economy is strong or weak, competition is fiercer than ever. Change comes faster than ever. Investors-who were passive when today's senior leaders started their careers-have turned unforgiving. But this factor by itself doesn't explain the near-epidemic of shortfalls and failures. Despite this, there are companies that deliver on their commitments year in and year out-companies such as GE, Wal-Mart, Emerson, Southwest Airlines, and Colgate-Palmolive.
When companies fail to deliver on their promises, the most frequent explanation is that the CEO's strategy was wrong. But the strategy by itself is not often the cause. Strategies most often fail because they aren't executed well. Things that are supposed to happen don't happen. Either the organizations aren't capable of making them happen, or the leaders of the business misjudge the challenges their companies face in the business environment, or both.
Former Compaq CEO Eckhard Pfeiffer had an ambitious strategy, and he almost pulled it off. Before any of his competitors, he saw that the so-called Wintel architecture-the combination of the Windows operating system and Intel's constant innovation-would serve for everything from a palm-held to a linked network of servers capable of competing with mainframes.
Mirroring IBM, Pfeiffer broadened his base to serve all the computing needs of enterprise customers. He bought Tandem, the high-speed, failsafe mainframe manufacturer, and Digital Equipment Company (DEC) to give Compaq serious entry into the services segment. Pfeiffer moved at breakneck speed on his bold strategic vision, transforming Compaq from a failing niche builder of high-priced office PCs to the second-biggest computer company (after IBM) in just six years. By 1998 it was poised to dominate the industry.
But the strategy looks like a pipe dream today. Integrating the acquisitions and delivering on the promises required better execution than Compaq was able to achieve. More fundamentally, neither Pfeiffer nor his successor, Michael Capellas, pursued the kind of execution necessary to make money as PCs became more and more of a commodity business.
Michael Dell understood that kind of execution. His direct-sales and build-to-order approach was not just a marketing tactic to bypass retailers; it was the core of his business strategy. Execution is the reason Dell passed Compaq in market value years ago, despite Compaq's vastly greater size and scope, and it's the reason Dell passed Compaq in 2001 as the world's biggest maker of PCs. As of November 2001, Dell was shooting to double its market share, from approximately 20 to 40 percent.
Any company that sells direct has certain advantages: control over pricing, no retail markups, and a sales force dedicated to its own products. But that wasn't Dell's secret. After all, Gateway sells direct too, but lately it has fared no better than Dell's other rivals. Dell's insight was that building to order, executing superbly, and keeping a sharp eye on costs would give him an unbeatable advantage.
In conventional batch production manufacturing, a business sets its production volume based on the demand that is forecast for the coming months. If it has outsourced component manufacturing and just does the assembling, like a computer maker, it tells the component suppliers what volumes to expect and negotiates the prices. If sales fall short of projections, everybody gets stuck with unsold inventory. If sales are higher, they scramble inefficiently to meet demand.
Building to order, by contrast, means producing a unit after the customer's order is transmitted to the factory. Component suppliers, who also build to order, get the information when Dell's customers place their orders. They deliver the parts to Dell, which immediately places them into production, and shippers cart away the machines within hours after they're boxed. The system squeezes time out of the entire cycle from order to delivery-Dell can deliver a computer within a week or less of the time an order is placed. This system minimizes inventories at both ends of the pipeline, incoming and outgoing. It also allows Dell customers to get the latest technological improvements more often than rivals' customers.
Build-to-order improves inventory turnover, which increases asset velocity, one of the most underappreciated components of making money. Velocity is the ratio of sales dollars to net assets deployed in the business,
which in the most common definition includes plant and equipment, inventories, and accounts receivable minus accounts payable. Higher velocity improves productivity and reduces working capital. It also improves cash flow, the life blood of any business, and can help improve margins as well as revenue and market share.
Inventory turns are especially important for makers of PCs, since inventories account for the largest portion of their net assets. When sales fall below forecast, companies with traditional batch manufacturing, like Compaq, are stuck with unsold inventory. What's more, computer components such as microprocessors are particularly prone to obsolescence because performance advances so rapidly, often accompanied by falling prices. When these PC makers have to write off the excess or obsolete inventory, their profit margins can shrink to the vanishing point.
Dell turns its inventory over eighty times a year, compared with about ten to twenty times for its rivals, and its working capital is negative. As a result, it generates an enormous amount of cash. In the fourth quarter of fiscal 2002, with revenues of $8.1 billion and an operating margin of 7.4 percent, Dell had cash flow of $1 billion from operations. Its return on invested capital for Fiscal 2001 was 355 percent-an incredible rate for a company with its sales volume. Its high velocity also allows it to give customers the latest technological improvements ahead of other makers, and to take advantage of falling component costs-either to improve margins or to cut prices.
These are the reasons Dell's strategy became deadly for its competitors once PC growth slowed. Dell capitalized on their misery and cut prices in a bid for market share, increasing the distance between it and the rest of the industry. Because of its high velocity, Dell could show high return on capital and positive cash flow, even with margins depressed. Its competition couldn't.
The system works only because Dell executes meticulously at every stage. The electronic linkages among suppliers and manufacturing create a seamless extended enterprise. A manufacturing executive we know who worked at Dell for a time calls its system "the best manufacturing operation I've ever seen."
As this book goes to press, the merger between Compaq and Hewlett-Packard, proposed in mid-2001, is still up in the air. No matter: Alone or in combination, nothing they do will make them competitive with Dell unless they come up with an equal or better build-to-order production model.
The chronic underperformers we've mentioned so far have lots of company. Countless others are less than they could be because of poor execution. The gap between promises and results is widespread and clear. The gap nobody knows is the gap between what a company's leaders want to achieve and the ability of their organization to achieve it.
Everybody talks about change. In recent years, a small industry of changemeisters has preached revolution, reinvention, quantum change, breakthrough thinking, audacious goals, learning organizations, and the like. We're not necessarily debunking this stuff. But unless you translate big thoughts into concrete steps for action, they're pointless. Without execution, the breakthrough thinking breaks down, learning adds no value, people don't meet their stretch goals, and the revolution stops dead in its tracks. What you get is change is for the worse, because failure drains the energy from your organization. Repeated failure destroys it.
These days we're hearing a more practical phrase on the lips of business leaders. They're talking about taking their organizations to the "next level," which brings the rhetoric down to earth. GE CEO Jeff Immelt, for example, is asking his people how they can use technology to differentiate their way to the next level and command better prices, margins, and revenue growth.
This is an execution approach to change. It's reality-based-people can envision and discuss specific things they need to do. It recognizes that meaningful change comes only with execution.
No company can deliver on its commitments or adapt well to change unless all leaders practice the discipline of execution at all levels. Execution has to be a part of a company's strategy and its goals. It is the missing link between aspirations and results. As such, it is a major-indeed, the major-job of a business leader. If you don't know how to execute, the whole of your effort as a leader will always be less than the sum of its parts.
What People are Saying About This
Chairman and CEO, Exxon Mobil
Professor of Management, Wharton School, U. of Pennsylvania
Chairman and CEO, Johnson & Johnson
Co-founder of Six Sigma Academy
President and Co-CEO, Verizon
Chairman and CEO, Dell Computer Corp.
Meet the Author
Larry Bossidy is chairman and former CEO of Honeywell International, a Fortune 100 diversified technology and manufacturing leader. Earlier in his career he was chairman and CEO of AlliedSignal, chief operating officer of General Electric Credit (now GE Capital Corporation), executive vice president and president of GE’s Services and Materials Sector, and vice chairman of GE.
Ram Charan is a highly sought advisor to CEOs and senior executives in companies ranging from start-ups to the Fortune 500, including GE, DuPont, EDS, and Colgate-Palmolive. He is the author of What the CEO Wants You to Know and Boards That Work and the coauthor of Every Business Is a Growth Business. Dr. Charan has taught at both the Harvard Business School and the Kellogg School of Northwestern University.
Charles Burck is a writer and editor who collaborated with Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan. Earlier in his career he was an editor at Fortune magazine.
From the Hardcover edition.
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'Execution' is about getting things done, being persistent and realistic, as well as managing the 3 core processes; strategy (why? and what?), operations (how?) and people (who?). Building a performance culture is never as easy as it sounds. Looking back a few years, try to recall a few of those companies with great media attention and grand strategic visions. Many of them failed. And many of them will fail again and again, because the heroes are strategic visionaries that never bothered to deal with the issue of execution; continually and personally making sure that things were actually done. You know, when all is said and done, usually more is said than done... If you found this book fascinating, you'll probably have some of the execution traits hidden in your personality preferences. If you want to check it out, you might visit some of free Internet sites for a test. For a business, I believe it's paramount to make sure that you have a well-balanced team on all levels in the hierarchy. This also includes having enough executives with execution traits. Advice: Don't assume you have it; test it! Conclusively, this is a great book. I liked it so much that I even also bought the audio version! The reason for the audio version is that these execution ideas simply are needed to be absorbed over several readings (or listenings). Otherwise, you won't be able to start changing your behavior (which you can change, unlike your innate preferences). While commuting, I often turn the CDs on and find it inspiring to forget about traffic jams and just getting the views of Charan and Bossidy in their own voices. However, I do agree that the book easily could have been shorter. Peter Leerskov, MSc in International Business (Marketing & Management) and Graduate Diploma in E-business
Too many war stories mar this book, which can be boiled down to this - CEOs must sweat the details without micro-managing. Perhaps I am too theoreticaly oriented, but much of this book seems to be simple common sense rather than insight. The last portion of the book, about how actually to execute, is quite good, the first 2/3 is fluff.
Great title, Congratulations. It made me purchase the cds. But... From the beginning until I couldn't listen anymore, I ached for simple talk--too many syllables, too long before making a point. Reminded me of much of my 20 years working at a Fortune 5 company, one of the top 5, where plain talk occurs only rarely,and when it is, it's limited typically to one-on-one, closed-door conversations. Maybe I need to give it another try.
The book is well written and combines insight from two renowned business leaders, Bossidy and Charan, who together raise the level of awareness of what it takes for a business to succeed. I liked this book and read it for an MBA class. It takes skill and focus to execute business and as the authors point out quite well the difference in reaching business goals lies in the ability to execute plans in terms of having solid building blocks and strategies. I recommend this book highly for leaders in profit as well as non-profit organizations.
As I read through this book I thought I had read some of the very same words before. As with many books that offer real life do it yourself by my experience stories, I was a little jaded. After it's all said and done, I would say it's not only worth the money but well worth the time. It's made a differnece in my life and will do so for you as well. It's not just for CEOs and it's not just for men. Take my word for it. Also recommended: Mommy-CEO, for personal life with kids and family. (Very similar outlook for home life.)
Without action, aspirations dominate corporate life. However with suboptimal positive thinking, employees depend on others for motivation and direction (instead of relying upon themselves), and execution is compromised. With Optimal Thinking and Execution, corporate culture is optimized. I recommend this book along with Optimal Thinking: How to Be Your Best Self for every executive and employee. Your entire organization will have the mental software to optimize results with minimal risk and execute with optimal precision.
Larry Bossidy and Ram Charan first clearly demonstrate why the most effective business leaders are not out of touch with day-to-day activities but are deeply involved with all aspects of execution. For that purpose, Bossidy and Charan convincingly analyze recent failures in execution within companies such as Xerox, AT&T, and Lucent. Bossidy and Charan then examine the three building blocks that execution-driven leaders must use to design, install, and operate effectively the people, strategy, and operations processes within their organization. Those building blocks are the distinctive modus operandi of execution-driven leaders, a culture that thrives on accountability and links rewards to performance, and the selection of the right people for the right jobs. To their credit, Bossidy and Charan have a jargon-free laser focus in reviewing the stumbling blocks that underlie the execution gap in those three areas. Bossidy and Charan indeed illustrate each of those stumbling blocks with relevant examples from their practice that makes it very enjoyable to read. Bossidy and Charan then explore the people, strategy, and operations processes that are built on the above-mentioned foundation for execution excellence. Bossidy and Charan brilliantly illustrate with clear examples the multiple links that exist among those processes and their interaction with the outside world. To summarize, "Execution The Discipline of Getting Things Done" is too valuable to take dust on readers' shelves. Any leader aspiring for execution excellence can indeed find an enduring source of inspiration in that reference book.
If your looking for practical advice on jump starting your marketing and sales team Bossidy and Charan have a fomula that is straightforward and directive. Their ability to "Dumb it Down" makes putting into action what you learn very simple. I highly recommend this book to any manager struggling with getting their teams to "do" rather than pontificate. Excellent read!
I have read this book and will recommend it to all of my managers. I hereby recommend it to you, also. This book does not presume to make execution and getting things done easy, however. Rightfully so. Getting something done --- execution --- requires the willing cooperation of those who you expect to do the job (unless you're going to do it yourself). That requires you to be a good leader, and to be a good leader you need to understand the basic philosophical principles of leadership. That is beyond the scope of Larry Bossidy's wonderful book. So, be sure you also read a book that will further educate you on character and leadership. Otherwise, you will merely be one of those men or women in the ranks who are going to stay in the ranks, simply because you haven't the ability to get things done.
As the authors point out, many people say or think "of course you need to execute" without a clear understanding of how to make that happen. The authors here do a great job illustrating how a leader can execute. This is the first book I have read that clearly shows what interdependence should exist among strategy, operations, and the people process. And, in fact, these relationships are the key to execution. I highly recommend this book to people who can and want to make their organizations execute better and to people who are in executing organizations who want to better understand why their organizations execute.
Execution ¿ The Discipline of Getting Things Done is centered on revealing that ¿execution¿ is the critical discipline for getting things done. Doing this requires that one find out what is really ¿real¿ and then help others see what is ¿real¿. A leader or CEO does this by behaving as a ¿coach¿. The ¿coach¿ spends much time appraising and evaluating people and plans. Appraising and evaluating is done by using direct questions that ask ¿what¿, ¿who¿, and ¿how¿ as often as necessary to reveal what is really true for a given situation or problem. Note that ¿why¿ is not featured as part of this question process. The ¿coach¿ not only exposes harsh realities to subordinates but also asks more questions that help lead subordinates to realistic solutions to their problems. When things work well during these encounters, the participants experience closure and an energy gain rather than a drain that typically results from statements that merely humiliate. The above scenario is repeatedly applied to a variety of critical business activities. This book takes the reader through many real examples of important business situations. And the examples include experiences of people well known for their success in business. I believe that the lessons offered in this book are powerful and portable. I recommend reading this book¿ Reviewer: Dave Kruschke, Madison Wisconsin.
I truly wish I had this book available when I first began my trek into management. I've learned much of this by hard knocks and gained insight into execution of tasks especially with trends of change management that I will be able to use in the work environment. Truly a must for management level and those that wish to gain insight into executing initiatives.
The excerpt in a May issue of Fortune magazine perked my interest in this book -- I've seen Mr. Bossidy's guest appearances on CNBC, but this is the first time I've read any of his work or that of Mr. Charan (although I will now be adding any other titles they've written to my small collection of 'keepers'). Briefly, this a thoroughly engrossing book full of unique perspective that I believe could be applied in almost any strategic business context. I agree with Michael Dell's statement -- 'this is a book for would-be CEO's' (though we may never make it to that perch) who are looking for a role model. Mr. Bossidy provides the example today's marketplace so desperately needs in the wake of the scandals we continue to learn about. Sound business judgment, exemplary character, and a commitment to the shareholder are the values that built modern capitalism and the marketplace that fuels our country, and many of us can learn from these writers. While I enjoyed Jack Welch's 'Straight From the Gut', it was more about the man (as evidenced by its sheer size -- like 600 pages), whereas 'Execution' is much more straight-forward and useful. I teach Internet Business Strategy at University of Miami, and am tempted to find any excuse to work this book -- which is decidely about using old world commitment to outstanding performance to produce good, old-fashioned success -- into my curriculum. Maybe I could be lucky enough to have either Messers. Bossidy or Charan guest lecture in my course?
One thing I got from this was that you always need new approaches to getting things done. The defintion of done must be managed. Very good.