Natasha Ngan and Courtney Summers Talks Girls of Paper and Fire, Sadie and More

Courtney Summers: Let’s start with something fun (and evil of me): if you could describe Girls of Paper and Fire in one word, what would it be?
Natasha Ngan: Heart! <3 Girls has so many elements that are important to me, but also it’s a story about knowing your own heart; learning to use it as a force for both destruction and healing.
Let me be mean right back ahah! What is Sadie’s word?
Summers: Hmm…I think it would be “brutal,” and I’ll let that speak for itself!
Ngan: That’s perfect!
Girls is outstanding. It hosts a lush and beautifully realized world, and it’s carried by Lei, who is one of the most memorable characters I’ve read. Her narrative was raw, honest, and uncompromising. It hasn’t escaped my notice that readers can be hard on female characters who dare to be so wholly themselves and who embody unexpected kinds of strength. Lei does both of these things. Can you talk about how you developed her?
Ngan: Thank you! I’ve definitely noticed those kinds of responses to Lei. She’s certainly flawed, but I think a lot of it comes from the intimate nature of her situation at the palace. It forces readers to confront how they believe they’d react in similar circumstances, and whether that matches up or not to Lei’s own behavior. I was mindful of this when writing. Lei is constantly walking a tightrope between fury and fear, helplessness and hope. To me it’s natural that it takes her time to really take control of her own agency. Lei is strong, but she’s still a teenage girl facing these awful things with little guidance or support.
Sadie, on the other hand—she just storms right in, ablaze with strength from the onset. I love how uncompromising you made her, but she’s still such a real, believable character. She’s almost a twin to Lei, who is outwardly vulnerable whilst nursing a core of rage, whereas Sadie has this hard exterior that hides an intensely vulnerable, loving heart. Was that a conscious decision or something that emerged through the writing?

Summers: Lei and Sadie pair well! And thank you; it was a conscious decision. Sadie approaches her goal—to kill the man who murdered her sister—with a relentless single-mindedness that’s almost off-putting, so it was important for me to make sure readers knew what was ultimately driving her is love; I made sure to reveal her vulnerability and heartbreak, otherwise her quest for revenge wouldn’t have made as much of an impact.
Ngan: You balanced her character beautifully!
Summers: We were both Buzz Picks at BEA, where I watched your editor, Jenny Bak, talk about Girls. She discussed the necessity of its darkness. You don’t shy away from tough topics, including sexual abuse. I found it so sensitively done, nothing was gratuitous. My work explores similar subjects, and I’d love to get further insight on how you approach them and why you think it’s important to see them reflected in fiction.
Ngan: That’s one of the things that blew me away with Sadie—how you handled fraught topics so unflinchingly, and yet with incredible delicacy. I’ve never felt we should shy away from darkness in YA. The real world isn’t so kind as to filter it for our readers, so it’s vital we create spaces where they can explore their own opinions on and reactions to such topics—as well as, crucially, the perspectives of others. I never show violence for the sake of it, or for shock value. It’s about confronting how we think and talk about these topics, both as a society and individually, internally.
That’s why I’m so drawn to SFF. It allows me to hold up a mirror up to our own world, whilst at the same time having freedom to gild it, to soften the starkness with fantasy elements. Sadie, on the other hand, like much of your writing, is set in the real world. How does this affect your exploration of tough topics?
Summers: Perfectly put and I agree! These narratives offer value to readers, but it’s also important to explore them with nuance and care. Whatever genre I write, I want to make sure my work contributes to existing conversation surrounding these topics without undermining them or causing harm; to be true to the story while always carefully considering its impact.
 I’m dying to hear more about the worldbuilding and writing process of Girls. Can you take readers through that and share any particular challenges (or joys) you encountered along the way?
Ngan: The first thing that came to me was the one-line hook: a human girl as concubine to a demon king falls in love with a fellow concubine. I like to hold barebones concepts like this in my head for a while to see what ideas follow. I find this allows the story to grow organically. With Girls, I envisioned very early on a world inspired by my Chinese Malaysian heritage. I saw a young girl dressed in flowing robes, cowering at the foot of an immense throne, an equally immense bull-like man occupying it. I smelled sandalwood and jasmine, sensed the girl’s fear and quiet defiance. Questions came next: where did this bull-man come from? Why would he take human courtesans? What secrets is the girl hiding from him?
Worldbuilding is my process of answering these questions. I love this phase! Playing with ideas, researching, dreaming scraps of scenes—just completely enveloping yourself in a magical new world. It’s the part of writing that feels the most freeing to me. Your story is pretty much limitless at this point, and that’s so exciting.
Starting the first draft was one of my biggest challenges with Girls. With each book, I have to find the right moment to start or I can’t go on. First chapters are how I ease myself into the story, how I find my way into the heart and mind of my narrator. Girls had many false starts. But once the first lines came to me, Lei’s voice was so strong that it carried me pretty quickly through the draft.
The biggest highlight came at the end, when Lei discovers the word inside her Birth-blessing pendant. Throughout the book she wonders at what it might be, what future fate has in store for her—and I was totally wondering, too! I didn’t know what the word would be until writing the scene when the pendant opens. I literally jumped up from my desk with a cry of joy! The word is so right for Lei, and it was a beautiful moment of serendipity for me as a writer.
Without giving away too much, I had a similar moment at the end of reading Sadie(!). You manage to both wrap up her story and leave much of it open to interpretation. It was such a perfect ending, and I’m curious: did you figure out Sadie’s story as you went along, or did you know from the start exactly how everything would turn out for her?
Summers: I love how asking questions informs so much of how you build a book, because I’m the same! As far as Sadie, it was a combination—I had an idea in mind, but sometimes the execution turned out a little differently than I envisioned. As long as I followed the heart of the novel, I knew it would come together the way it was supposed to.
I like how we’ve circled back around to heart. 🙂
Ngan: A fitting word for both of our books!
Girls of Paper and Fire and Sadie are available now.