Poured Over: Rick Riordan on The Chalice of the Gods

By Jenna Seery / October 21, 2023 at 6:00 am

Percy Jackson returns at long last in The Chalice of the Gods. Rick Riordan brings back the characters that started it all in a new adventure as they face down one of their toughest challenges yet — getting into college. Riordan joins us to talk about the return to his beloved series, collaborating with incredible authors in his publishing imprint, adapting his work for the screen and more with Miwa Messer, host of Poured Over. We end this episode with TBR Topoff book recommendations from Marc and Madyson.   

This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Executive Producer Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.    

New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.   

Featured Books (Episode):
The Chalice of the Gods by Rick Riordan
The Lightning Thief by Rick Riordan
The Last Olympian by Rick Riordan
The Sun and the Star by Rick Riordan and Mark Oshiro
Daughter of the Deep by Rick Riordan

Featured Books (TBR Topoff):
The Beast Player by Nahoko Uehashi
Aru Shah and the End of Time by Roshani Choksi

Full Episode Transcript
Miwa Messer
I’m Miwa Messer, I’m the producer and host of Poured Over and I am pretty sure as a bookseller that well, Rick Riordan is pretty responsible for quite a lot of readers. And I don’t think Rick will necessarily say that because if you’ve met him, he’s a very subdued kind of guy. But I will tell you, I really, really, really think that Percy Jackson and the Heroes of Olympus and the Kane Chronicles, and oh, Magnus, Chase. And of course the Rick Riordan Presents series, I think you’ve done quite a lot for younger readers who are now adult readers, it’s pretty exciting to see. Did you ever think we’d be here? Did you really think that this year, all of your work would just take off the way it has?

Rick Riordan
Oh, no, no, not at all. I mean, you know, I, when I was a kid, I knew that I wanted to do two things in life, I wanted to be a teacher. And I wanted to write, and I was very lucky that I got to do both. But doing it at this level, no, never never even entered my mind.

It’s really been wonderful to see the growth. I’ve been a bookseller for your entire career. And it’s been really fun to see and also be able to talk to readers at different points in their lives. About you. I mean, I’ve got the older readers now where I’m like, Oh, you came up reading Rick. And then of course, we’ve got this whole new generation of short set readers who are just kind of like, Have you ever heard this guy? And we’ve got an entire Tiktok generation calling you Uncle Rick, which all of this delights me to know. And as you can tell, because anything that gets young people talking about books is exciting to me. And you went back to Percy Jackson for this new novel Chalice of the Gods.

Very true. I did.

I thought we were done. I thought we were done with The Last Olympian in all respects. But I was not expecting this book. I’m delighted to have it.

No, me neither. I was not at all expecting this. Yeah, I mean, it’s been 14 years since the last book in which Percy was the narrator. And we had a full novel, from his point of view, was not expecting it at all. But as with so many things in my career, it came kind of came out sideways, you know, not something I was expecting. But we were talking to Disney after the acquisition of Fox and trying to bang on some drums. And, you know, tell them that Percy Jackson was this thing, it was a property that they now owned. And it would be really cool if we could make a great adaptation about it. And as part of that, I kind of pitched the idea that well, you know, if you guys are interested in doing that, I, I would even be willing to go back and maybe write about Percy again, to sort of promote the show in that way. And so I came up with these ideas about firstly, being a senior in high school and how he would have to get these recommendation letters from the gods, which struck me as funny. I mean, I’ve been through the college process now with my kids. And I know how stressful that is. It turns out, I didn’t need those ideas, but they stuck around with me. So when we did get the show up and running, I thought, You know what, I’m just gonna go ahead and try that. And it was so much fun to go back into versus point of view.

I mean, you told The Hollywood Reporter that that you were slightly anxious about going back and I thought, but you created.

Well, I made it. But it’s been a long time in 14 years is a long time. Percy hasn’t aged as much as I have. And that time because he’s in his own timeline. But nevertheless, I mean, to try to recapture that voice is something I didn’t know whether I would be able to do but I think I think the readers will be pleased. I think that Percy raises slightly older which he is, yeah, but he’s still Percy. He’s got the same, you know, sarcastic attitude, the same problems of being a demigod and he’s still, you know, got his friends at his side. So they’re, they’re having a pretty good time there as much as you can when you’re a demigod.

And I have to say the new book flies it. I mean, all of your books live. But this one particularly I just part of it. I was just curious to see what you were going to do. And if I remember correctly, this sits between the last book of Heroes of Olympus and that series, and the last book of trials of Apollo. So for folks who know the timeline cold, this is where that is. So we’re backtracking a tiny bit to revisit Percy senior year, which I kind of liked that idea quite a lot because you do some fun stuff with nostalgia.

Oh, cool. Thank you. Yeah, I that is exactly where it sits. And it seemed like that was an unexplored year. It seemed like a good place to kind of drop the exam. Yeah, I’ve been very pleased. It’s nice to kind of just spend time with Percy, Annabeth and Grover, sort of in their natural habitat and see what they’re up to.

Although I will say someone who cuts through Washington Square Park pretty much every day to get to the office, I may not see the park the same way ever. That may just be me…

You know, it’s an interesting place, there’s always something fun going on there. So I figured, you know, that’d be a nice place to hang out.

You mentioned also this new series that’s coming. And part of me wonders. I mean, you’ve been living with these characters in this world, since before publication in 2005. I mean, these we know, they started the Percy Jackson stories that they started as bedtime stories for your sons, you’re very involved, obviously. But at the same time you do handover, it’s a different experience when you’re creating something for the screen. And you are by nature very collaborative. And I’m going to come back to that in a minute, you’re Collaborative on the page or collaborative. In publication there, there are million different things. But what’s it like? And I cannot wait to see the three actors who’ve been hired to do the Disney series, I just, they look adorable, and I cannot wait to see them bring your characters to life. But what’s it like for you having another facet to the world?

Well, it was a very long process of getting here, it was not sort of an environment that I was familiar with. So it was kind of learning how to create a story in a totally different way. And so in a way, the writing of Chalice of the Gods and the creation of the TV show, dovetailed with each other very nicely, because in both cases, I was going back to the roots of Percy Jackson and remembering what that was all about, and how to construct those voices. So one definitely informed the other that they are very different processes, the film industry, that’s a team sport, no one, I mean, unless you’re funding your own independent project and doing everything yourself, no one creates anything by themselves. It’s all a collaborative group effort. So that already is very different than me who by and large just sort of sits in my office and writes a book and I write what I want to write. And, of course, my editor will help me and, you know, my family will weigh in. But really, it’s my story. And it’s just me. So just in that way, it’s very different. There are a lot of cooks in the kitchen. But that’s good, because I had this is not a process that I know. So I have learned a lot about it. It’s been really challenging, but really also very fascinating to see how that happens.

I have to say the visuals look fantastic, for small screen, and I realized, you know, the game has changed quite a lot with streamers and whatnot. But the visuals look really great. And I think it’s a combination of live action. But also there is a little bit of CGI, I’m assuming there are things you can do Sure, with child. But it looks fantastic. It really I’m so excited for December,

I have to say we have an incredible team. And I have a great amount of respect now for how hard it is to make a television show and how many people put in so many hours to make something like what we’re trying to make. It’s a very ambitious show. And the entire team is just incredible.

And you say that as a person who has what roughly 190 million copies of your books in print. And that doesn’t include the Riordan Rresents right?

No,

That’s under your byline.

I mean that that number is too big for me to even wrap my head around. I should be like McDonald’s and have a sign- so many served. But no, I don’t I don’t keep track. But yeah, that the Riordan imprint is definitely something that I love. It’s not my, you know, it’s not my IP. It’s not me writing it. It’s really more just about me being an excited book talker and cheerleader, you know, support person as much as I can. But these wonderful authors that are doing their own takes on mythology.

That’s partially why when I think of you, I think of you as a collaborative writer, I mean, this book that you just did with Marco Oshiro, The Sun and the Star I mean, listening to the two of you talk about this book. Oh, it’s so lovely. It’s you knew that you needed to co author for this particular project, even though it sits in Percy Jackson’s world because of Nico and Will, their relationship and you’re like, Well, you know, I should get some help. If I’m going to render LGBT characters as they should be rendered. I’m going to ask for a hand and I really respect that. That you’re able to say, Hey, I do want to expand my world and I want to make more but I need a hand and Mark is just a lovely guy.

Now, Mark is great, and they have an entirely different set of skills when it comes to approaching a story than I do and that was really helpful to me and really kind of an educational experience to it is interesting. All these projects have kind of happened come to fruition around the same time that TV show, the new Percy Jackson book, The Sun and the Star. And all of them were really about learning to reinvent perceive the world and collaborate with other voices to bring that some more. three dimensionality. Yeah, it was a great experience. It’s interesting, you describe me as a collaborator, because before this year, I don’t think I would have used that word for myself, I wish really very much, really very much of a, you know, sort of do my own thing. And, you know, I’m, I’m the creator, I’ll take it as a compliment. Because it’s been, it’s been a great, great experience to kind of expand.

I mean, I remember reading in PW very clear, even though this is 2016. And I went back and I found that piece, but I remember seeing the announcement that Rick Riordan presents was coming, and that you were going to do sort of four books a year, and you were not, in fact, going to write these books, but that you were going to tap other people to do it. I just remember walking around the office smiling like a crazy person probably for about a week because I knew what the potential was going to be. And it’s a combination of you responding to your reader saying, well, couldn’t you do Japanese? And couldn’t you do you know, other cultures? And you were kind of like, well, I’m not the best idea. But you know, we can do Chicano and Hindu and it’s wonderful. What you’ve been able to the Cuban? I mean, I know. Yeah, there’s Mesopotamian. Like, it’s really so fabulous to say and such a fun recommendation for parents, and educators and adults in with small people in their orbit, just to be able to say, Hey, listen, if you want something slightly different, but has the feel right arrived, and yeah, so thank you for all of that. But do we get more than four books a year?

I think four was sort of a beginning goal. But I think if we look at you know, what’s actually coming out a year, it’s much more than that, because you have the first book, perhaps in a series, but then you have also the follow up books from the year before and the follow up books from two years before. And so for instance, I think I’m going to be on tour this week, and talking about what’s coming up in the Rick Riordan presents world. And I think just for the year to come. I mean, I think we’re talking about 10 books that are coming out from different authors. It’s really succeeded, I think beyond my hopes. I wanted to do this because I felt really strongly about it. And I knew that there were so many great stories out there. I knew that it was a hunger for for stories like this, but I didn’t, I think anticipate that it would do as well as it has. And it’s been fantastic to see.

You know, one of the things that I really appreciate about the Riordan Presents line too, is you’re working with writers who are established like Daniel Jose Older, and also Rebecca Reinhardt. So everyone’s getting a shot, basically, is what I’m saying you have this giant tent and you’re saying to everyone, come on in, let’s look at what we’re doing here. I mean, you’ve done it. You’ve had deaf characters, and you’ve had characters with physical challenges. And, you know, obviously Percy with his ADHD and his dyslexia, I mean, I love the fact that you can pin these kids and say, Hey, wait a minute, this isn’t actually a bad thing. And I’m guessing you still get a lot of mail.

It’s always fun to see the readers discovering the books, whether they’re the imprint titles, or whether they’re my books, but you’re right. I mean, this is at the core, this is how Percy Jackson started, it was a way to tell my son, you have learning differences. That is not a bad thing, differences a strength, lean into it, find out how you succeed, and you will do just fine in this world. And I think that’s true for all kids. I mean, the world is full of different kinds of kids. And it’s important for them to know that they’re seen and valued, whoever they are.

And I’m just going to take a second and point out that your oldest, with ADHD and dyslexia now holds a Master’s in higher education with a certificate in learning differences. And I love the idea that he can just go out into the world now and help kids who are like him or maybe unlike him, we’ll see. Yeah, but I think it’s true. It just makes me so happy.

I could not be prouder. He decided you know what I want to do and my life is give back and help the kids who are coming up like I did and need accommodations like I did. And he is now kind of my go to learning differences expert and now he knows tons of things. He works full time at a university locally here and really has rewarding jobs and is good at it. So he found his place.

That’s awesome, do your sons still read early versions of the novels are they saying Hey dad, we don’t have time.

They will if I ask them to look at it like if it’s a new project, if it’s something that they haven’t seen before, I will ask them to take a look. And they are very good editors. So yes, my wife, Becky, and both of my sons are kind of my first line of quality control. And then it goes out from there to my editors,

You have yourself now a master’s in Gaelic literature from University College in Cork. You also thought perhaps you might take up a Ph. D. program in Celtic mythology, at Harvard as a kind of semi-retirement. And as I say that, in recording, I worry about all of the people whose hands just went up in the air and said, What, but I want to talk about your evolution as a storyteller. And the idea that, you know, you would really like to go back to school, even at this point in your career when you’re very established. And where that would take you because clearly you connect with your audiences, regardless of clearly you connect with the art of story, whether it’s in print or on the screen, I was really surprised to hear that you’d gone back to school and we’re thinking of really sort of a PhD program is not a small thing to undertake while you’re touring and writing at least two books a year and overseeing your own imprint and EPing the television series.

No, no, no. And it wouldn’t be possible. I think, at the core, what it really is about is that I have always considered myself and always wanted to be a lifetime learner, I think that’s critical for being a teacher is that you also see yourself as a student, that you’re always learning you find learning fascinating, learning about new cultures, learning about new literature, learning about how people in the world do things and the history of that. And I love that. And so when I began to explore the idea of writing about Celtic mythology, I wanted to know more about it. And that led me to taking some summer courses and some language courses in the Irish language. And I’m lucky enough to be in Boston. So Harvard is kind of, you know, very close by resource, I got to know the people in the Celtic Studies Department. And I felt that this was back in 19 2018, I guess that it would be a really fun thing to do. Challenging, absolutely. But really fun to go through the PhD program, and put in the time put in the effort to really become an expert in the subject matter. Unfortunately, for me, I had gone through the process, done the application, taking the GRE gotten recommendations, you know, just like any other applicant would, and had gotten my acceptance letter to Harvard, and was ready to start when I got the word that the TV show for per se, was going to be going ahead. And so I had to make a choice. Do I do the PhD program? Or do I become an executive producer, and I really wanted to be a student, I have never wanted to be an executive producer. Film, film is just, I mean, I just doesn’t interest me. I mean, it’s just not my world. However, I really felt like it was the right thing to do for the readers for kind of the legacy of the Percy Jackson world to try to make a good adaptation. So I told Harvard that unfortunately, I had to decline and I had to do this other thing. I dove into that instead. And I treated it the same way I would have. If I were going into a Ph. D. program, I was a learner. I dropped into that environment of film, and I tried to learn as much as I could.

Yeah, I have to say that the more episodes of the show that we produce, it has occurred to me that I possibly should have done more independent study, when I was younger, because each episode in its own is the complete education or a revisiting of work that maybe I encountered for the first time when I was a teenager, and it’s been a trip. It’s been an absolute trip to really sit down and be able to approach someone’s work as a whole.

Absolutely, yeah, I totally get that.

But you were a reluctant reader. I didn’t know this until recently that you know, sort of The Lord of the Rings is the thing that got you on the track but James and the Giant Peach and The Phantom Tollbooth but you in high school, and this is leaving me up to your Shakespeare thing. Just so you know, that you in high school you were not reading outside of whatever was assigned For whom it just wasn’t your thing?

No. And I also wasn’t reading what was assigned to me. There was that. I mean, I was a very indifferent student. It’s true. But I had, I think the first spark was in eighth grade when I had a wonderful English teacher who was the one that found that I had read The Lord of the Rings. That was like the one success I had as a reader that I thought, Oh, wait, reading can be fun. She took that and opened the door to the world of Norse mythology to the world of creative writing. She encouraged me to submit my stories to publication. They were never published, but it started me on that road. But yes, I mean, I think one of the reasons I write the way I do, and the way I taught the way I taught when I was in the classroom, is because I have a great deal of empathy for reluctant readers. And, you know, students that aren’t the a plus students that, for whatever reason, just don’t find the classroom engaging. And they’re, they’re the ones I want to reach. I mean, I love the avid readers, fantastic, but they’re gonna read it though the ones that don’t normally read are the ones I try to reach.

I genuinely believe that there is a book for every reader, and that the people who tell me that they do not like to read which I try to keep a neutral expression when they say that, but I do genuinely believe they just haven’t found the book that is going to make their head explode. Absolutely. And that’s part of the joy for me, as a bookseller is saying, Well, have you tried this? Have you tried this? Have you tried this? Have you heard of this guy? But what’s even more fun is really when you have a reader come to you and say, Well, have you? Yeah, and you get to watch their face sort of light up. It is absolutely the best feeling in the world. But you are also a Shakespeare fiend. And I’m wondering if that means we’ll ever see sort of a Riordan presents Shakespeare because it is a different kind of project. Right? Like, yeah, it is sort of part of a very classical education. But it doesn’t really fit into the Riordan presents that you have now. But wouldn’t it be fun? And plenty of people have done them? Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not suggesting anything. But I would like to read your take.

I have not considered that. Actually. It’s a it’s an interesting idea. I haven’t really done much with Shakespeare. Oh, gosh, I mean, years and years and years. I used to do it with my students to talk about the ultimate challenge. I mean, try to make eighth graders get into Shakespearean English. It’s not the easiest thing to do. It can be done, though. I think part of it is the same approach I take with Greek mythology is you have to sort of embrace the strangeness of it. And kind of agree with your students that yeah, this is a little weird, that this is the story. And this is the words that they these are the words that they used and but to kind of enjoy the weirdness of it and enjoy the challenge of figuring out how people in Elizabeth in England talked and why they talk that way. So yeah, I agree. There’s a lot there that could be written about. I’m not sure if it’ll be something that I do. But it’s definitely a font of all kinds of inspiration.

I mean, part of why I think of it too, though, there’s a physicality to Shakespeare’s plays, the books, especially with Percy Jackson, they’re not just adventure stories. They’re not just action stories. There’s a lot happening on multiple levels. And there is a physicality to Percy and Grover and Annabeth, and the other campers that I think, for kids, especially, it’s really refreshing to see because it isn’t just the action, right that you have this balance of the cerebral and the physical. And how much of that is you letting sort of proceed and gang lead the way? And how much of it is that you saying I remember what it was like to teach eighth graders after lunch?

Yeah, I mean, it’s a little of both. But it’s, it’s certainly true that my goal is always to create a story that I could share with my fifth period class when they’re just about to check out and not feeling great, and not really engaged and to try to make it so interesting, that they’re going to be learning in a way and enjoying themselves while they do. And a lot of that is to try to play to all parts of the audience. You know, Shakespeare had the Groundlings and the folks in the balcony and he had to somehow create a story that everybody could get something out of, I don’t know Shakespeare but I mean, I try to learn from that model. And try to have a wide appeal as wide as I can to make sure kids are enjoying themselves,

Just thinking about the through line between sort of Greek, Roman, Norse and to a certain extent Egyptian. I mean, they’re sort of the things and lesser so Norse mythology, certainly Greek, Roman and Egyptian and they’re the things that get taught part of me is hoping that we can see more sort of adaptation, like, for instance, is a very large among community in Wisconsin. And I’m like, Well, I’m hoping that the public schools, you know, are working that in as well. And are you finding though that lots of schools are bringing in the Riordan presents titles is sort of a supplement? What’s it because I know, Percy has been used for quite some time. I mean, you’re covering so much ground with Yeah.

I mean, I can only speak anecdotally from what the authors and the imprint have told me and I know that all of them, to some extent or another are involved in school visits and an outreach and presentations with libraries. I know they’re finding an audience, how much that’s incorporated in the classroom, I’m not sure. I just like the fact that the books are available, that there’s something out there because I remember so well, when, when the back in the 1990s when I was teaching, social studies and, and literature with middle schoolers, there just wasn’t much out there. I mean, if you wanted to teach a course on, you know, Chinese culture or, you know, whatever it might be South American cultures, there just wasn’t a whole lot to draw from in terms of fiction. And now, it’s better that we still have a ways to go, but it is better. There’s something so empowering about a young reader being able to pick up a book that features a hero who looks like them and shares their background and has marvelous adventures. But to see that the author of that book, also looks like that, and is from their background. That is powerful on a whole other level. Right, that is so so wonderful to see.

You know, representation matters. I mean, when I was a kid, Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston’s Farewell to Manzanar, which seminal American Book, hugely important. But for a long time, that was the one that you saw, and I was kind of like, well, can’t we have more? Right? And I was one of those kids who, as a younger reader ended up in the adult section of the library very quickly, because I was kind of like, Well, hi. Yeah, isn’t there more. And I think it’s really amazing what we’re seeing with middle grade and why certainly in picture books, we’re just getting broader and more inclusive. And I think it’s really great to be able to pick up a book and see the truth of your own life in the details of someone else’s like so the idea that you can be a kid from you know, anywhere USA and pick up one of these Riordan presents books and think, oh, yeah, sometimes school is a drag. Sometimes my mom nags, like to see your experience, and then you get to go fight monsters. How excellent is that? Yeah. It’s really wonderful. What do you think you’re going to end up doing? I mean, are we going to see sort of the Celtic mythology, the way we saw Magnus Chase?

Well, that was the plan. And I would love to go back to that I did, it got rather derailed because of the TV project, which was very much all consuming. So it was two paths converged in the woods. And I had to, I had to choose which one. I’d love to get back to that other path. I would, and hopefully I will, but I don’t know. I mean, we have the TV show. We have the new Percy book we have, you know, Celtic mythology bubbling in the background, other adaptations in the work. So there’s a lot going on, and I guess I will just have to juggle them as best I can and see what comes up next.

Daughter of the Deep as well.

That is yes, that is being adapted. We just turned in the script right before the strike. If things get back to business, I think it looks like they are, then we’ll see where that is.

And Jules Verne. I mean, again, that’s part of why I was thinking sort of collaborative because you’re very open about how Jules Verne sort of spurred on Daughter of the Deep and I remember when we posted a photo of you scuba diving on B&N’s Instagram. It was off the charts. Everyone was so excited. It was a really lovely moment, but you’re watching the engagement kind of do that Rick Riordan. Good to hear, a delight to see but I have to say I’m looking forward to that as well. I want to go back to something about Percy though for a second. Just listening to you talk about other projects and what could happen. I was under the impression and I think a lot of folks were under the impression that The Last Olympian and even Nero, The Terror of Nero in the Trials of Apollo series, that that was kind of going to be it and I know you spoke Back to the sort of earlier in the show coming back to Percy because of the film, but do you miss this kid? When you’re not actively writing about him? I know we’ve got this great cast with heroes. And you know, we’ve got a great cast with Trials of Apollo but it seems like Percy kind of has your heart in a different way maybe?

Oh, sure. Yes. I mean, because of the very personal nature of the origin a person’s story because he is so much my sons but also myself, he definitely holds a special place. He’s the Keystone, the entire sort of mythological universe I’ve created and he’s like a member of my family. He’s, he’s very easy to spend time with. So yes, I do miss him when I’m not writing about him. But I always feel like he’s there. Rather like my sons you know, now that they’re adults, I may not like see them every day. But I always feel like they’re there. They’re there. They’re always just a phone call away.

I know, you’ve said this before. But I love this line that kids read faster than you can write. That is true. Yes. So and it is absolutely true. And they are it’s again, it’s wonderful to see, but how are you going to keep up? Two books a year? And whatever this television piece may be, or film piece may be?

I don’t think that’s sustainable, really. And that wasn’t a plan. Okay, so you mentioned, as you mentioned, I mean, the idea was that I was going to kind of semi retire and sort of enjoy myself taking classes and being a student and learning and writing less. And my sons love to tease me that I am terrible at retiring, because they see everything that I have going on now. It just kind of happened that we had The Sun and the Star and The Chalice of the Gods come out the same year. And yes, I did think that, you know, I probably wouldn’t be writing another Percy book. But as I’m always, I always try to be careful to say never say never. I never know what’s going to come up. And it happened the way it did. And I’m pleased with, with how it’s been received. So I will keep sort of pacing myself, you know, year to year and doing what makes sense. There is no master plan for me at this point, I am just doing what I can every year and enjoying myself.

I really appreciate that, that there’s no master plan that you’re just in this world and spinning stories. For kids who are hungry for story. I think that is so charming, and lovely and wonderful. And I really appreciate it. Is there anything you wanted to talk about? In this conversation that maybe we missed? I’m trying to stay away from spoilers, obviously, because we are taping, pre-publication on Chalice. And there’s so many fun moments in this book, none of which I want to speak about here because the book is not yet out.

But soon, I am just very grateful that readers have stuck with me for as long as they have and continue to enjoy them. I never expected the books to do as well as they did. And I certainly never expected to have a career. At this level for so long. It’s been a great honor and a privilege to be able to do what I’m doing and have people read the books and enjoy them. That’s, that’s something I never get used to. And I never take for granted. So I’m just every day is a success.

And that seems like the perfect place to wrap. Thank you so much. Rick Riordan. Chalice of the Gods is out soon. It’s out very very soon. And obviously, how many books are there now? It’s 40 ish.

I mean, I think just in the personal world, there’s like 15 this will be 16. But yeah, I’ve I think I’ve published in total 30. And then the imprints it’s a whole other thing.

In other words, you can spend a very long, long time with Rick Riordan and these wonderful characters, and I hope you do. And even if you’re an adult, go get them and go talk to your tiny people about them because they’re really fun. There’s so much fun. Thanks again, Rick. Thank you.