In Conversation: Kimberly Jones and Gilly Segal Talk I’m Not Dying With You Tonight

Kim and Gilly: We are so thrilled that to be doing the Barnes and Noble Teen Blog! Bookstores have been safe havens for us throughout our lives. Both of our parents will tell you stories of how not only we were kids who would get lost in a book, but that at very young ages we took comfort in jotting down our thoughts in journals, whipping up fantastical tales and appreciating the power of the written word as a form of expression. The teen years especially.
How did you guys meet? And how did I’m Not Dying come about? 
Kim: We met in a book club for adult readers of young adult novels. We discovered that we have a lot in common, including that we were both single moms balancing day jobs with writing dreams. We quickly became friends.
Gilly: This story was inspired by an incident that occurred during the Baltimore riots in 2015. When the authorities became aware that a protest was planned, they closed schools early and ordered the students to disperse, and also shut down the public transportation in the area. While news stories moved on to other event transpiring in Baltimore, as mothers, we found ourselves coming back to those students—worrying for their safety and wondering how they made it home. That sparked the story that would ultimately become INDWYT. What would happen, we wondered, if two very different girls with very different life experiences found themselves trapped together in such a charged situation?
I heard there was some interesting research involved! A ride along?
Gilly: I got to spend an afternoon with a police captain and a member of SWAT. We wanted to understand what actions law enforcement normally takes during a riot. The first thing I learned was that they don’t refer to riots—they call them mass disturbances. Fun fact: that was the title under which we originally subbed the novel! Ultimately, it didn’t work as a title, but we got to keep it in the form of a section heading. The SWAT officer helped us understand how locations and setting factor into the mounting chaos we describe in the novel. Alas, they didn’t take me on a ride-along. Maybe next time!
Kim: We also interviewed riot survivors from Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Ferguson. Interviewing them helped us understand what the moments they experienced felt like and the emotional intensity of the danger our characters were in. While the details of their personal experiences are not on the page, we did our best to honor the spirit of what they went through. We’re extremely grateful to those who shared their memories and experiences with us, and we tried to be thoughtful and sensitive with them.
As someone who’s collaborated before, I always find the process fascinating. What was it like for you guys? Plotting? Pantsing? Trading chapters? Each focusing on one character?
Gilly: We call ourselves extreme plotters. We needed to know where the story was going before we began, so we plotted the entire novel chapter by chapter and each chapter beat by beat before we began writing. We also mapped out the physical locations—and even reviewed the map with the SWAT officer. We love that the B&N exclusive edition of the novel contains that very same map. (Albeit a beautiful version a graphic designer helped with!)
Kim: Given that it is a dual narrative, we each took primary responsibility for one character. I drafted Lena’s chapters, Gilly drafted Campbell’s. Beginning the writing process as friends helped us to write a manuscript based on very difficult topics coming from a place of love, from a desire to understand, and no ego to disrupt the conversations. Part of our process was listening, understanding, and being honest about vulnerable moments. As much time as we spent plotting, drafting, editing and editing again, we spent talking and listening to each other.
The contrasts between the girls are stark in many ways. How did you craft the characters? What was deliberate, and where did they take control?
Gilly: We did craft each character very deliberately. Each girl’s background and life experiences contributes to how she views the events of the night and what she learns. We often say the book is as much about perspective as race. Therefore, it was important to us that the girls brought different perspectives into the night. One character did surprise us and take control of his own story, though: Lena’s cousin Marcus! He wasn’t even in the first draft of the manuscript. However, as we revised, we realized we needed to replace another character that wasn’t working well, and Marcus stepped into the story. He was so dynamic and so interesting that he wrote himself into a much bigger role than was originally planned!
The book covers some very timely themes, including racial tensions, violence, class and cultural divides. Did you imagine it would be as timely as it is? What was your approach to tackling these issues?
Kim: We began writing the novel four years ago. At the time, someone asked us if we thought the subject matter would still be relevant once the book was released. Here we are years later, and the needle has not been moved significantly. Our approach to tackling these issues was to first and foremost do no harm. We utilized the same sensitivity tactics as we held discussions with each other about how to represent these themes to our best ability.
What’s the most interesting thing you each learned about the other (writing-wise or otherwise!) in the process of collaboration?
Gilly: I can’t put my finger on one thing—we learned so much about each other over the course of the four-plus years we’ve been collaborating. However, one thing I learned about myself is that growth comes from discomfort. Being willing to confront uncomfortable facts, and my own implicit biases, and being honest about them, was a necessary part of collaborating on this story. But growth and change is possible when you’re willing to sit with the discomfort and learn from it.
Kim: I agree with Gilly! I often do.
Gilly: 🙂 SAME, in reverse.
What’s next for you?
Gilly: We just finished up our launch week tour—and we had more fun than we ever could have imagined. Together, we’re shenanigans squared, and we often get asked how *we* wrote a book with such serious themes. Now, we’re finishing up a draft of our second book under contact with Sourcebooks Fire (we promise, Editor Steve, we’re really, really close!) as well as solo projects. Kim is working on a fascinating historical YA set in Chicago in the ’90s and I’m working on a YA mystery in which the characters unravel truths everyone knows (or thinks they know), rather than uncover clues to solve the mystery.
Favorite thing you’re reading now?
Kim: I’ve just finished How To Be Remy Cameron, by Julian Winters, and it is magnificent. Grappling with the labels the world puts on us and the ones we put on ourselves is a much needed tale. Julian does an extraordinary job of showing what it could look like if you finally decided to just fearlessly confront it.
Gilly: I’m currently reading It’s A Whole Spiel, edited by Katherine Locke and Laura SIlverman, a gorgeous anthology of stories from Jewish authors. I’m also reading Checked, by Cynthia Kadohata, a middle grade book about a travel hockey player, with my son who is a travel hockey player. It’s lovely bouncing between the two and seeing such different aspects of my family life in the pages of the books.
I’m Not Dying With You Tonight is on shelves now. Want more from Kim and Gilly? Check them out on the B&N YA Podcast!