Poured Over: Hannah Whitten on For the Throne

“And when you give people the option to kind of live inside the head of a different character … if you’re doing your job, and you make it a character that they can see themselves in and they can empathize with, and then you kind of throw these things at them. And then it just changes the way that people think about something.” 

For the Throne is the stunning conclusion to the Wilderwood duology that invokes familiar fairy tales with sharp prose and epic world-building, and it’s out now. Hannah joins us on the show to talk about what draws readers to retellings, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings as a gateway to all fantasy, writing fanfiction and what she does with all those candles, The Foxglove King, her dream cast, what she’s reading and watching right now and much more with guest host Kat Sarfas. 

Featured Books:

For the Wolf by Hannah Whitten

For the Throne by Hannah Whitten

The Hobbit by J. R. R. Tolkien

The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien

The Hunter by Kerrigan Byrne

Follow Me to Ground by Sue Rainsford

Poured Over is produced and hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.

Full transcript for this episode of Poured Over:

B&N: Hello. I’m Kat Sarfas, forever bookseller at Barnes and Noble. Today we are joined by the lovely Hannah Whitten. Hannah is the author of the highly acclaimed and bestselling For the Wolf, a former speculative fiction pick here at B&N. And For the Throne, the eagerly awaited sequel and conclusion to the Wilderwood duology. So welcome. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Hannah Whitten: Thank you for having me. Yeah.

B&N: I think I first fell in love with For the Wolf the first time I saw the cover, and I know, I know. You shouldn’t judge a book by its cover. I know. But it is stunning. Yeah, it like immediately draws you in. And then it gets even better, because then you get into the book. And you sort of waste no time, like captivating your readers. We’re sort of immediately thrown into this intense and intimate moment where Red is essentially preparing for her sacrifice. So like yay!

HW: You do Yeah.

B&N: I’m not really surprised that Wolf became quite a darling on sort of the Bookstagram/bookok scene. There’s a lot of fire and passion fandom over there. Obviously this is your debut. So what on top of being a debut and then all of everything else, what has that experience been like for you? Sort of you know, this fandom? I mean, I can’t like the fan art alone…

HW: It’s just like wild. Is the very eloquent way I can describe it. It was completely unexpected. Yeah, I mean, everybody you know, hopes that your book is gonna like find a home with people and really find the people that it connects to but it happened and it happened really fast and I was not expecting it and it’s just been kind of a whirlwind to be taken on the journey of like people tagging me in just really cool stuff. My favorite thing I think that people have made us candles like there have been so many like Wilderwood candles and people are usually like really nice and will like send me a DM and be like can I send you one of these? I’m like Absolutely you can.

B&N: Like add it to the collection.

HW: Seriously, I have a collection and I always like save the jars because then I like put plants in them.

B&N: It’s nice to hear someone who actually who saves the jars and then actually does something with them because I am I am often the person who was like I’m going to save this jar and I’m going to do something with it and then it sits in my cabinet.

HW: I will say that like because they’re like for my book is really the only reason that I have made sure that I do because I am that same person that I’m like oh this is a cool jar. I’m gonna save it like not even candles just jars of anything. Yeah, jars. I don’t know what I’m gonna do with it but I feel like I should keep it.

B&N: Yes, like at one point maybe I’ll just bring them all out and just have a collection of jars because that seems to be where

HW: I have done that just gonna go surfaces of my home that are just like fancy jars.

B&N: Fancy jars. So I mean that’s amazing I love that like again I just the fan art people rallying around this book I love that I love this community of in tensely passionate book lovers, it’s so welcoming and just refreshing you know I mean social media obviously has its like ups and downs but this is just been like it just wonderful. I think it’s such a safe space I think is such a wonderful place for people to discover writers and books and stories and yeah, and then basically express their fandom by sending you candles that I can’t think of anything better. Getting now into so retellings obviously retellings reimaginings around everything so fairy tales mythology or folklore. It’s anyone’s game right now. Whatever you want to do. But it’s it’s obviously having a very fantastic moment and it’s kind of lovely to see these sort of like familiar stories take on a new life like I love that I love you there’s always like characters or parts of the story you kind of when you’re reading them originally you know you wish could go a different way and then it’s like oh, it can. The Wildwood series obviously not to you know Little Red Riding Hood. We’ve got like Beauty & the Beast in there, Snow White. It obviously has this magic all its own that you’ve that you’ve created in this universe this world What is it about these stories so these these fairy tales, these folklores they like linger in that subconscious like I can’t remember what I had. You know, most people can’t remember what they had for breakfast, but they can remember every fairy tale or like you know, ask them you know about like every Why are we so drawn to these tales?

HW: I think that a lot of it is because many times you know the folklore of the culture that you’re in is kind of the first stories that you hear. So it just like sticks in your brain and really plants itself in there as like a core story memory. I think that’s a big part of it. And another aspect is that they’re so archetypal, like if you break fairytales kind of down into their composite parts, there’s a lot of similarities even like across cultures, which I think is really really cool. Cinderella, in particular, there’s like so many different Cinderella stories like from all corners of the world. So obviously, there’s something that is very like human about these archetypes because we keep coming back to them and retelling them in different ways. So I think that they’re just kind of things that people reach for very instinctually. Whether or not you’re like setting out to be like, I’m going to retell this fairy tale or remix this folktale or something like that, even when you’re writing something original, that’s not intended to be something like that you still kind of reach for those tropes and archetypes to help you make sense of the idea

B&N: It’s interesting that you’re saying, talking about tropes, because I feel like tropes are such a bit just it’s something that we’re talking about. So you know, and so much it’s like enemies to lovers. It’s like, where did these … obviously these tropes came from somewhere. These tropes that we love so much, they are everything has it’s sort of like origin story. I imagine a lot of us sort of come to these like views and come to these, these fairy tales, these folklores, obviously, if it’s like a cultural thing, you know, those are the first stories that we’re hearing. For others. I think it’s, we sort of often enough come to them, you know, the sort of sugar coated, watered down adaptations. Unfortunate, Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, obviously, there’s like a good thing good and bad. Yeah.

HW: Classic Disney fairy tales are the bedrock of a lot of people’s first experiences with story like, that’s how it is.

B&N: That’s exactly it’s like, for better or worse or whatever. And then obviously, you grow, and you discover new things. And you kind of you know, I think it’s, it’s always fun, like, when you hear like, I think for me, like the first talking about Cinderella, the first time I read like the actual Cinderella, and you know, it’s very. And you’re kind of like, what’s like, what’s happening here, as we as we get older, we learn new things, we have a lot of awakenings. like kind of a very much enjoyed how Red is sort of raised to believe this one, this one story, and obviously she is at the center of it, you know, in a way sort of without question, like, this is what we’re doing? Not without question, I guess she does question. You know, I mean, her, like, by

HW: Questions to the point. And then it’s like, does it matter? Not really.

B&N: Yeah. So like, it’s, it’s like these questions, but it’s sort of like, well, this is, this is how it is, you know, like, this is everyone around me, like, we’re all pushing towards one direction. And, this is where we’re going with this, only to discover that there’s always more to the truth. And I think that’s a life lesson that we all kind of stumble upon, at some point, what was your inspiration, just take the story in that direction to have it be this sort of discovery, this awakening in a way and then have that sort of lead into everything else?

HW: So it was kind of mirroring my own experiences of that kind of awakening moment where you start to question the stories and the values that you were raised with. And even kind of having that hopeless moment that read has where she’s like, Well, does it matter if it’s not true, because I still have to, like live within this framework. So that was definitely an inspiration. The reason that I wanted to kind of mess with Little Red Riding Hood in particular is because it is such a morality tale, original telling of like not straying from the path very much about like lust and bodily autonomy and things that I wanted to mess with. And kind of twist around on its axis and see how I could take something like that and make it say the opposite. In the way that Wolf itself is kind of lumping a bunch of different fairy tales together, stripping them down to parts, and then putting those parts back together in different ways. I wanted the true story of Red’s world that she’s learning while she’s in the wild, or would to kind of be the same thing where all the parts are there, but they’re just put together in very different ways than she was taught. It’s an understandable thing where you’re like playing a game of telephone. It’s just so much context is getting lost along the way.

B&N: I love fantasy. It’s probably like if I hate to say like, you hate to pick a favorite, I’m gonna pick a favorite like genre, like guitars, it’s like my safe space. What I love so much about it. And sure, you know, even within these books is that you sort of, you can weave this beautiful tapestry, and it’s like, everything, you know, ancient magic, historical references, folklore, you know, let’s throw in some political intrigue. Let’s have some, you know, theological tensions and like, yeah, like bodily autonomy, like we can discuss, like sort of these heady these topics in this space. And I love to hear like different opinions of this because, like, I always say, what is it about fantasy that sort of offers this like perfect canvas to explore these stories and to what you were saying like that you want to take these very real issues and kind of be able to lay them out in a way that maybe it’s easy for people that I don’t know if it’s easier for the you know, everyone to for you to absorb. I mean, obviously in this philosophy deals there’s there’s some like survivor’s guilt, there’s, you know, there’s this PTSD, it’s like, there’s these things that, you know, obviously, topics, we need to talk about topics. We just need to share and be open with. But then, yeah, so what is it? Again, I’m getting off topic, but what is it about fantasy and you know, that allows us to sort of play in a way?

HW: I think that the draw for fantasy, in particular with those things is being able to make stuff that is very heady, literal, the forest as a metaphor, in folklore, in general is like a place of transformation, like the person who goes in, it’s not the person who goes out. And so I just made it literal. Let’s use that to like, you go in, and you literally can’t come back out and kind of use that to talk about personal transformation. And like societal transformation and why context gets like lost. And communication breaks down whenever you have these barriers in place. So yeah, you can just take all these things that like in the real world, whenever you’re trying to, like talk to someone about them or discuss them get very in your head very quickly. Yes, we like it. But if you’re like, Okay, think about it, like the woods then it’s like, oh, okay,

B&N: Yeah, I think I love that I love you know, when you’re reading a book, and you’re so you’re so in trance, obviously, like, you know, there’s a character and, you know, maybe there’s a romance and there’s a mystery and like, yes, like those are, you know, very alluring. And then all of a sudden, you know, you can’t help but like, see like the undercurrent, you know, in terms of even like the her whole, this whole sacrifice this whole, like not questioning, like just going, you know, going forward. And it does, it makes you kind of, you know, all of a sudden, you sort of translate everything to like, oh, well, this is kind of, kind of like where we’re at now with this, kind of like, we’re living with this.

HW: And when you give people the option to kind of live inside the head of a different character, and it kind of you can kind of like, sneak up on somebody. You know, if you if you’re doing your job, and you make it a character that they can see themselves in and they can empathize with, and then you kind of throw these things at them. And then it just changes the way that people think about something.

B&N: I love it. Yeah, I mean, it’s not that you can’t do this within other genres. I just personally feel like, within the fantasy space, it’s just better.
HW: I think speculative fiction, just as a whole lends itself to that because you aren’t kind of constrained by real world rules. Yes. Real world rules. Say that five times fast.

B&N: Yeah. And I love that and I, you know, I’ve heard like, a lot of writers even say, like, they, it’s, you know, so they can they can create and it’s, again, you’re in your world building. So it’s like you you have the opportunity to create a space where certain things exist or certain things don’t exist and then it’s like go you know, like how and how these characters sort of live within these confines. So love it love it, love it. I know that many I’m gonna just like lump us all together as any like millennial/Gen Z writers sort of got their like first taste of writing or get there like starred in fanfiction Yeah. Yeah. And so which I love and that was right there with you. Like it’s just and I love that. I love that fanfiction. You know, I think back to like, when I was in high school, where it was like, you know, like, the secret sort of thing that you didn’t talk about and you like, maybe wrote about it on your Live Journal, but never share it or like it was like a small you know, whatever. Yeah, it’s just, it’s I mean, it launches, think about how many how many books I’ve launched on this site, so I’m gonna ask you and I kind of already know the answer this one because you know, I fight it on the internet. I want you to talk about it. So is there any fanfiction that we should know about anything floating in the universe anywhere that you anything you want to you want to talk about right now?

HW: I have absolutely written fanfiction. I’m not gonna like tell anybody what it is. I feel like if you have a spent anytime on any of my unfortunate social media outlets but yes, I wrote some last year actually, it’s very much like, and this is kind of getting into process but follow with me. If writing is a muscle, then I try to like keep it going even whenever I’m on a break. So like if I’m, if I’m like waiting for edits, or I’m getting a pause from drafting or something whenever I have a break, like I tried to actually take a break for a couple of weeks, but then I’ll kind of like the itch to write something and Offseason training is there for me. Yeah, okay. cross training. Yes. So I will like just write a little one shot and throw it up on my very secret 803 account, not talk about it anywhere. It’s fine the people it’s meant to buy if you really want to go to the Dark Knight search so I still write it I still read it. Um, the very first book that I ever attempted whenever I was like 12 was essentially Lord of the Rings fanfiction. But it was before like, knew what fanfiction was. . So I like just changed the names around and was like, Yes, this is good. Clearly, like I insert it was a self insert also, because what else am I gonna write whenever I’m 12 years old. And so I was in the Fellowship of the Ring. I was an elf, who was obviously in a love triangle with Legolas and Aragorn, of course. I mean, and I’m honestly sad that like, I wrote it on my parents old dinosaur desktop, that is long since gone to the grave. And sometimes I’m like, I wish I could find that and read it again. But then most of the time, I’m glad that it’s last to pasture.

B&N: I, too, like Lord of the Rings, I think was my first I mean, it was like, The Hobbit, you know, and then like, you get a little older and then you sort of read Lord the rings. And for me, like, I enjoyed The Hobbit of not getting off. But then like Lord of the Rings, it just sort of like woosh.

HW: I read The Hobbit actually, because like, I didn’t read it as a kid. I didn’t really know about it until the movies came out because my my parents were not big, like fantasy or sci fi people like they read like nonfiction and historical fiction. So but the movies came out, and I just hyper fixated very quickly. And so I read all of the books, I read The Silmarillion. I read like children here and whenever it came out, but it wasn’t my entire personality for a good few years. I’m like, I have an elvish tattoo on my leg. Like, it’s a lifestyle.

B&N: It is. I can’t like when I it’s funny whenever I hear anyone talk about how like Lord of the Rings, like that was like their entry to fanfiction, or their entry to fantasy. It’s just, it was like, especially when there’s, you know, if you hadn’t read the books, even then, you know, and then movies came out. And it just it was it was like, obsession. It was just lockers to meet like, just pictures of like, yeah, just everything and I remember like, just being completely in it. And I remember my lovely friends made me like a fan a lot of things fanfiction birthday cake, and, and they went to barbell with like, fan art. And I can only imagine that poor employee was like, like, okay, sure, sure. I’m getting paid for that. And yeah, and I remember, you know, just just literally taking like, from the, from the movie, like the delicate like the like, and like in the taking out names and inserting like my name, and they’re like, just like, you’re like, I’m gonna put me in this story. It was just, it was so wonderful. And I love it. And I love it. That was the

HW: First OC like, yes.

B&N: I love that it’s such a pinnacle entry point into into fantasy and into I think it’s just like this idea of being in world I think, you know, and I think that’s something that when we, you know, we read these books we’re so entrenched in them and sometimes it’s hard to you know, you’re kind of going about your daily life and like I feel like you’re looking at these people like you don’t even know. Do you know? Do you know what’s happening? Like, how are you just walking around?

B&N: Like I’m having a full crisis and you don’t even know.

HW: Yes, I’m having a crisis I mean, it’s spoken I’m having a crisis Do you know what’s going on you know, and obviously everyone is oblivious you know, in your mind, but and you want to be so inworld and this is just another way to sort of be in in world and I love that it’s so it’s taking it’s sort of like taking off now and socially acceptable not be there at all that it wasn’t 15 years ago whatever. Um but yeah, lovely to see you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for still writing fantasy fanfiction and thank you for admitting admitting you’re talking about your earliest ventures into it.

B&N: My most embarrassing fanfiction venture I will share is that some friends and I and like middle school I had a notebook that we would pass around and we would take turns writing Daughters of the Moon. That book series and they were small there were only like this big but there’s like 20 of them yes and so we all created our own daughters of the moon Oh sees and would write in this notebook and pass it around. It did get found like by someone not in our fanfiction group and that was the end of that because

HW: And that was the end of that and that’s why it’s like that’s how you put it on the internet.

B&N: Love it. Um, alright, so speaking of, again, like thinking of like fanfiction, your writing, I’ve heard you speak that, you know, talking about dreams and hopes and putting out those little manifestations into I think that this would be a wonderful adaptation for the screen. I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna put that out there, you know, just again, let’s just like plant those seeds put out those good vibes. It just put them all out there. So and I feel like I’ve seen this conversation like on your socials and I just think it’s so funny when I see you and your and your fans interact and they kind of put their their opinions out there. So what I’m gonna ask you now, so your dream cast or like everyone always loves to talk about like the dream cast.

HW: Yes. So I I have options in my dream cast. Because I think about this a lot. And I’m like, I want to like, like have different strata, you know, like, I this is something that I think about a lot so like putting putting the feelers out in the universe there. But for that the only person that I have ever like looked at me like that, as read is Florence Pugh.

B&N: She’s just I mean, obviously right now she is just amazing and doing such incredible work.

HW: Could we afford her? Who knows? Probably not. She’s great. She would be amazing. Amon’s hard. Because I feel like that is kind of the casting that like whether it would work or not hinges on? Yes. So I have options. Okay, so first option would be Ben Barnes. He’s got the look. Adam Driver would be great but again, probably can’t afford him. Also my like third option that I’m like he would be a good Amen is Oliver Jackson Cohen from The Haunting of Hill House. The younger brother, Luke.

B&N: Yeah, so we’ve got some options.

HW: Listen, we have options. Um, Neve. I have always pictured Adelaide Kane from Rain. Which is like the most ridiculous show but I did love it very nice.

B&N: Love it of awesome. No

HW: To no sense but I had a great time. Yeah. John Boyega would be a great Rafe. I I picture, now I’m blanking on his name, but the guy that was big Ichabod Crane and that Sleepy Hollow TV show. Tom Mison. I might be saying his last name incorrectly but him specifically in that show with the hair.

B&N: Oh, it’s like kind of nice that he’s, you know, he already has the aesthetic. Like

HW: Listen, we get that like a hairdresser. Again? You got it?

B&N: We need we need all of those parts. All right. So I hope the universe I hope you’re listening. I hope you heard all of that

HW: Everyone, light your candles.

B&N: Light your fanfiction candles. Light your For the Wolf candles and let’s make it happen. So, For the Throne. So this is a duology?

HW: It is.

B&N: Okay. So then For the Throne concludes. Okay. Because I thought it was a duology and then but then you know, you’re kind of hopeful you’re like.

HW: Yeah, I’m certainly not opposed to returning to the world eventually. Here’s another thing that like push out into the universe.

B&N: Do obviously this is For the Throne again. So we’re kind of over concluding the Wilderwood duology and then we now we get to follow nev and which is just really exciting because it you know, it’s just again, like you’re you’re in a you’re back in the world but it’s you know, now it’s just a new a new story a new new character. Well, not new but like a new you know, a different path. So I guess that my question was, Is this the last one we will get to see of Wildwood.

HW: Officially, yes.

B&N: But unofficially, maybe. So, yes, so that was my question, but also what was the sort of the hardest part about I know it like sometimes when you’re like, it’s like the first book is is you get this thought you get this spark? And you like, run with it, and then it’s, you know, you come back into this world and over sudden but it’s a lot harder because now you have expectations now, you know, you have all this fandom you have, everything’s on swirling along with the story. So did you sort of have so how is the process in here because you have this story already, like flushed out when you were sort of.. Like when you it was one of those things where you know, you were writing for the web, but you sort of already had it, you know, it was already mapped. So it wasn’t as difficult to go back. Or when you started with this book, was it something where you were like, Okay, now now this is

HW: A little of both. So trying to plan throne, ah, was difficult, because I do try. I’m not like naturally a planner whenever I’m writing, but but with like deadlines and stuff like that I do try to like have a roadmap in mind. And like brainstorm with like my agent and my editor to just before I like sit down and you know, write 120,000 words, let’s make sure that everybody thinks this works. Like, just that just seems prudent for everyone. Um, so that process was kind of hard. The ending whenever I sat down to draft changed, because the original ending that I’d had kind of whenever I started getting back into the headspace of the characters, it didn’t ring true, and didn’t seem like a just reward for what was going to happen. So because the Wilderwood books in particular are very character focused, it was less about like, figuring out what I wanted to happen and more about making sure that I was in the head of the characters correctly, and kind of making sure each action had an equal and opposite reaction. Yeah. And Neve has always been my favorite character to write. She was very difficult to write in Wolf, particularly. But because she was hard to write. And because I did have to spend kind of a lot of time revising her character in particular, and really figuring out kind of what made her tick and why she did the things that she did. By the time I got around to drafting Throne, I had a really good handle on her as a character. And so like, once I started drafting and like, just kind of sat down and did the thing. It unspooled itself pretty easily. Yeah. So yes and no.

B&N: Yes and no, that’s fair.

HW: Parts of it were hard. But for the most part, it’s, it came easier to me than I expected it to, honestly, because you always hear about like, sequel syndrome and how second books are so difficult. And so I was just ready to like, have my ass kicked. Whatever it ended up being, like, easier than I thought it was gonna be. I was like, Am I doing this right? Like, Have I done something extremely wrong?

B&N: Like something is obviously wrong. But I think I’ve either heard you or I’ve read that you said that Neve was sort of like, that she was the character you connected with the most. So then they got it did that that I’m not I’m not completely surprised to hear you say that. Because you know, it is when you connect with a character when you like, yeah, getting it back in their head, or when you’re already you’re already there, then I imagine, you’re good.

HW: We got each other on a very deep level.

B&N: I gotcha girl. And it is, it’s wonderful. So I don’t think this is new news. And I apologize if it is new news to anybody listening. And if it is, then you need to go on how are you? Sorry, not sorry. Because you need to be following following Hannah. So, um, you have something new on the horizon?

HW: I do. Yes.

B&N: So the Foxglove King, which I like, like to say it, I feel like it feels very nice.

HW: I love it so much. It’s like the easiest to title has ever come to me.

B&N: Beautiful. So I’m going to ask you to tell us a little bit about this. Or you know, what you can again, spoilers, whatever. What can you tell us? I’m very interested now to hear about the title how that came, but also just what can you do? Is it is it? Is it series? Is it gonna be a duology? What are we what are we in for what’s what’s this journey? What’s what’s happening?

HW: It’s a trilogy. And it’s going to be a chunky trilogy. I’m editing the first one right now and like this is a chunk of a book. So the Foxglove King is a trilogy, the trilogy whose name is the Nightshade Crown. And it’s in a whole different world than Wilderwood. It tends more toward like the epic fantasy I think than the Wildwood books do. It’s just very like a sword and sorcery kind of thing, but you know, flair. So it is set in a country called Overain in a city called Delaire that has catacombs underneath it. And in the catacombs are buried the goddess of death, because there was this thing 500 years ago called the gods ball where she lost it and tried to kill her husband, the god of life, and all the other elemental Gods also died. So we don’t know where the God of life is anymore, like the church assumes he’s still out there somewhere, and have built this whole religion around the assumption that he’s still out there somewhere, but nobody really knows. So that’s like the background, our main character is Lore, she is a poison runner. Because in Delaire, because of the buried goddesses body, the magic of death is just like leaking from the catacombs and into the city all the time. If you like take poison, like poisonous flowers particularly are what’s in vogue, you might be able to use the power of death, like only those who have like died and come back, like had a near death experience like that can channel it’s called mortem. Can you tell that I haven’t like had a chance to come up with like, here’s my like, elevator pitch. Let me lay this out for you.

B&N: I’m fine with that. I am. Elevator pitches are great. But I also like the bits. I’m like, okay, so you’re gonna get all of these guys. We’ve got this again. theological tensions.

HW: So much theological tension. Like if you thought there was theological tension in while there was like, Honey, you got a big storm come in. We’re doing the thing in this one. Okay, so Lore is a poison runner. She also secretly can channel mortem, because secretly, she was born in the catacombs. So yeah, and so she’s like, escaped and fallen in with this, like poison runner gang who essentially provide poison to people, because if you take the poison you it does give you like, a little bit of a high. But also, if you are dosed correctly, it can add years to your life, because that essentially like pickles, your organs. Like, it’s not like a nice extra few years, because like your veins start turning just stone and like, you’re, it’s like not pretty, it’s not a fun time. But it is like extra years. So people are into that. So you have some people who just take it for the high, you have some people who are trying to be able to channel mortem, because it’s, you know, like the only magic left in the world. And you have some people that want to extend their life like both for good and bad reasons. So Lore’s poison runner, but she can channel mortem, and she gets caught. Because in like a drop gone wrong, she accidentally raises a horse back from the dead. Who among us has not accidentally raised some livestock from the dead on accident? So she gets caught, she gets taken to the church and the king fully expecting to get like sent to prison, but they’re like, actually, we need you to work for us. Because there’s this encroaching empire that is getting ever closer. And there are these mysterious deaths that are kind of happening toward the edge of like, where the Empire and Overain meet. And so they want her to raise those people back from the dead and essentially ask them what happened. So she gets stuck in the corner of the citadel with Gabriel, who is a monk or he’s a Duke turned monk with one eye and tattooed hands very important. Extremely important detail who his father like betrayed the duchy that they had to the Corinthian empire. And but then they killed him. They’re like Cool, thanks for the land by the killed him. They took out Gabe’s eye whenever he was like 10. And so he had this near death experience. And now he can also channel mortem. So essentially, his only option was to join like the press mort, which is this group of monks that can channel mortem, they’re the only people who are allowed to do it, but he’s actually a Duke and so the king is like surprise, you have to stay here with her. It’d be like her escort and he’s not pleased about it. Our other main character is Bastion, who is the king son who is someone that Lore is supposed to be keeping an eye on because they think that he’s an informant, and he is also a disaster. Actual like, just ruinous man. Everyone is a menace.. And everyone is just having a bad time except me. I’m having a great time.

B&N: Having a great time writing all these villainous, ruinous.

HW: Like, no one is neutral good. It is all on the chaotic side of the spectrum.

B&N: I love it. Like yeah, so are we all like chaotic neutral ?

HW: Chaotic neutral. I think that Gabe you could classify as like, chaotic good, or he might be more like true neutral. He’s very stoic.

B&N: I like to wake up and like decide where I am that day.

HW: What day am I having today?

B&N: Yeah, like some people you know, it’s like the equivalent of I feel like I always say I’m like, the sword and sorcery version of, I choose violence today. It’s like I’m choosing to be chaotic evil today.

HW: The original idea came around. I hesitate to say this, because then people will think it’s sci fi. But I got really mad at The Rise of Skywalker and wanted..

B&N: Be honest here. It is a safe space.

HW: So I kept thinking about, I guess, like spoilers for The Rise of Skywalker if you haven’t seen it?

B&N: No, at this point, there’s some times where I’m like go for it.

HW: I would like recommend it. But if you’re going to, I got to thinking about how the idea like I wasn’t opposed to the idea of re Palpatine if it had been like, seated in earlier and had been like something that we kind of built toward. And I was like, Okay, well, what would that like villain arc look like? And so I put it in a fancy court setting and I added a love triangle because I could and then I was like poisoned flowers are cool. What if I used that in it somehow. And the ones that decided that that’s kind of like the magic system component that I wanted to use, like, all the titles just kind of came very quickly. It all just sort of fell into play. Yeah. So like, I don’t know if I’m allowed to, like, say the titles for the next two books, but they follow the same naming convention.

B&N: Yeah, that’s amazing. Okay, so I love this. I can’t imagine anyone not loving this. And I love I love that you didn’t have an elevator pitch because this was so much better.

HW: Let me explain this to you in excruciating detail.

B&N: No, no, that’s I want a lot of the excruciating details. I was just like, that’s obviously I’m here for it. So you’re doing a lot, you’re writing this book. You’ve got this book, you know, this is the new one we’ve got, you know, a box of King is coming, it’s going to be a chunky trilogy, which is not my favorite phrase ever. And so, I’m going to ask this question. Do you have, I’m assuming you do, because you also talked about how you know flexing your writing muscles and you do a little fanfiction? So, you know, in all your spare time, what are you reading? What are you reading right now? Or what was the last thing you read?

HW: The last thing that I read was a historical romance actually. Which I read a lot of also, I’ve been like watching Bridgerton for the first time because I am perpetually years behind media, generally.

B&N: But that’s good because you get two chunks.

HW: Exactly. So in the middle of season two right now, and I’m obsessed. So because of that I’ve been reading historical fiction, like just like scratch that itch. So I just finished The Hunter by Kerrigan Byrne and it was excellent. I really liked Kerrigan Byrne because like they’re historical romances, but they’re extremely angsty. So you’ve got almost like fantasy levels of angst but within like historical romance setting which very into that. I like read that if I’m feeling angsty and then I’ll read Tessa Dare if I want to read historical romance but really funny. So I’m just served all across the board I’ve got I got I need I’m also currently reading Follow Me to Ground by Sue Rainsford which is interesting. It’s really It’s very short it’s like less than 200 pages and I bought it because of the cover it has a really great cover.

B&N: Again going back to the cover. I’m sorry, not sorry.

HW: I bought it for the cover and it’s been on my shelf for forever and I am really particular about like organizing my bookshelves and so I have one stack that has room for another book but it had to be a very small book like in my in my read stack and so I was like okay, I’m gonna read this because it’s like the perfect size to put in this stack. I very much enjoying it. It’s really creepy, which I wasn’t I wasn’t anticipating how like and creepy and uncomfortable it is but I really like it.

B&N: I love that it’s you know what I feel like there’s there’s books and you just need to be in like the right time or place and like that. Yeah, like you said exactly like scratching that itch. I kind of always look at books like, like almost like food. So, you know, you should really eat your vegetables and your healthy meals but then it’s okay to have a little chocolate.

HW: I love a brain candy book.

B&N: Yes, it’s okay to have a little a little snack. Um, and I will say that this series, I feel like scratches lots of itches. And so it’s wonderful. Um, you’ve got you know, there’s romance, there’s mystery you’ve got, again, theological tensions. All of it in historical references, folklore and mythology, retellings. It’s all here. And I just can’t thank you enough for writing this. And I hope that I mean, it. Again, no spoilers. It does. It is a complete story. It is it is wonderful as a duology thoughts. If you ever have that itch to scratch and feel like coming back into the Wildwood universe, I think all of us would be, we’d be happy to accept that. We’d be happy to accept that.

HW: I have thoughts and notions.

B&N: Yes. Hannah, thank you so much. Thank you again. This has been wonderful. For the Wolf, For the Throne are out now. Foxglove King is coming.

HW: Coming soon. It has a cover. I just can’t show you all yet. It’s really good.

B&N: I love it. All right. Thank you so much.

HW: Thank you. This was so fun.