Podcast

Poured Over: Jasmine Guillory on Writing Characters We Love

By Miwa Messer / August 9, 2022 at 6:00 am

“All three of the books that I have written during the pandemic have really been my way of going into another world and finding a place where none of this was happening. And that I could just relax and have fun. And so, I hope that my books are that kind of fun, joyous of maybe slightly salacious time for readers, too, because that’s what I enjoyed as I was writing them.” Jasmine Guillory is one of our favorite rom-com authors, with her seventh and eighth books (By the Book and Drunk on Love) releasing this year. Jasmine joins us on the show to talk about writing Black leads in romance, her literary influences, releasing three books during the pandemic and connecting with readers in person again, her love for the Bay Area, the elements that make up a signature Jasmine Guillory novel, and much more with guest host, Elani Wilson. And we end this episode with a TBR Topoff with Marc and Rhys riffing on their favorite Jasmine Guillory novels

Featured Books (episode)

Drunk on Love by Jasmine Guillory

While We Were Dating by Jasmine Guillory

By the Book by Jasmine Guillory

Party of Two by Jasmine Guillory

The Proposal by Jasmine Guillory

The Wedding Date by Jasmine Guillory

Royal Holiday by Jasmine Guillory

The Wedding Party by Jasmine Guillory

Counterfeit by Kirstin Chen

This episode of Poured Over is produced and hosted by Elani Wilson and mixed by Harry Liang. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.

Full transcript for this episode:

B&N: Hello, I’m Elani Wilson. I am a bookseller at Barnes and Noble. And today I have the honor of speaking with New York Times best selling author Jasmine Guillory. Thank you so much for joining us on Poured Over.

Jasmine Guillory: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

B&N: The wedding date came out in 2018. But I feel like I made it into the Jasmine Guillory world in 2018. And 2020 was a lot. And I think I had kind of gotten to a point where I was just kind of not even doing the things that I love to do, I was looking for escape, I was looking for something light. And I had to write something about Party of Two, which had just come out or was about to come out. And I was like, This sounds so cute. I think this will be like the perfect book for me to get into. And I don’t know if it was the cover or something. But I actually ended up getting the wedding party. That was my first one, you know, the sparkly covered everything. And that was where I started with your books. And I know, technically, that is not the beginning book, is there a wrong way to read, your books.

JG: Absolutely not, there’s not a wrong way to read. I mean, so the first my first six books like there, they do go in order, but I tried very hard to write them so that you can read them in any order. And I know lots of people who have like, started with one and then kind of gone back and then eventually reread them all in order. But I think I’m excited when people do read them out of order, because I’m glad that they all still make sense. Because you know, characters from other books pop up. But um, but I want it to feel like you can come in at any point, and enjoy all the books, and then you get to like, reconnect with other characters in other books.

B&N: Absolutely. I love that too. That’s one of my favorite things about your books. When you started writing The Wedding Date, you have since then written seven other books. You’ve been very busy. And By the Book came out in May of this year, and you have another book, Drunk on Love, coming out in September that we will talk about a little bit later. But what is your writing process like? And has it changed any since you first started writing?

JG: It changes some with every book. I mean, the first thing I do with every book is like have a note on my phone. At first, it’s sort of like general ideas and like scenes that come to mind, I’m kind of playing with names and trying to figure out who the names are, it’s never really an outline. There sort of just like stuff that comes to mind when I’m still in the very early stages, then I usually sit down and write some sort of an outline. Sometimes it’s really long and detailed. Sometimes it’s like short, and has, you know, kind of a beginning, middle and end and more detailed in certain places. And, and then I usually just kind of start writing, but and that, I feel like those things always happen. But the way I do each of them has changed a lot. You know, sometimes I think about a book for a lot longer before I start writing it. I think like While We Were Dating, my sixth book, I had a kind of general idea for that. I don’t know, maybe a year and a half before I started writing it. But I really only kind of figured out who the characters and who the characters would be. They were once they kind of dove in and then Drunk on Love. I had an idea for it like a year before I started writing it, but a lot changed during the writing process. So, there are lots of little things about you know, whether I’m writing on my computer or writing by hand, that kind of goes back and forth from book to book, how I how fast I write really changes depending on what’s going on. So yeah, everything I think, you know, things change for each book. But I do I think spend a lot of time thinking about, my first drafts are always really me figuring out who the characters are. I think that’s the biggest thing. My first drafts are always kind of long and rambly, and then I tighten it up and fix it a lot from draft to draft.

B&N: Okay. You have created some of my favorite characters, some of my favorite couples. Do you pull these characters from anybody in your life? Are you a part of any of your characters in any way?

JG: I’m a part of every single one of my characters. There’s like each one of them has at least something that comes back to me. There’s often something I’ve gotten the idea from from either like something I’ve seen or someone I know, and then my characters are people I know or myself, but kind of the idea often starts with someone. And so you know, there are sometimes even like, the idea for certain relationships come from relationships I’ve had or relationships I’ve seen in the world. And so, that’s often where the idea starts. But then as I start writing, the characters really become themselves.

B&N: I like to consider you like the Shonda Rhimes of the romance world.

JG: Oh my gosh what a compliment. Thank you.

B&N: You’re going to give us you know, a strong Black lead, you’re going to give us diversity, a little bit of character, a lot of character crossover, and just a really great story. And you know, while Shonda Rhimes is also an author, I think what we pull from for her most is television. What are your inspirations when it comes to writing? Who are your inspirations when it comes to writing?

JG: Oh, my goodness, there’s so many I mean, I have been a huge reader throughout my life. And so I think so many of my favorite books, cross genre, like, there are lots of Romance Writers who have inspired me, but like, you know, writers who I’ve loved my whole life have really, with their just sort of love of story. And the way that I have been pulled into the stories, I think, you know, everything from my the lingual whose books I adored when I was little, Beverly Jenkins, who’s like, huge, you know, person in the romance world, Tayari Jones, who is just such an incredible writer, like, they all write in very different ways, but have really each one and like, you know, scores more, have really inspired me just in like thinking about my writing and the way that I want people to feel when they read my books.

B&N: Yes, I love that. So to get into By the Book, which has been out a little bit, it is a reimagining of Beauty and the Beast. For those who have yet to read this book. Can you tell us a little bit more about by the book? Yeah. So it’s about Isabelle and Beau is about is a publishing assistant in New York City, she has been in that job for a few years and is starting to feel kind of disenchanted with the whole publishing world. She’s not sure if this is a life for her. And then because of something that her boss says she’s goes to Beau’s house. He’s kind of holed up in his house in Santa Barbara, he is a former child star was supposed to have turned in his memoir to Isabelle’s boss, you know, a long time ago and hasn’t done it. And so she goes to his house to like, try to get him to least answer some questions about what he’s doing. And if his book is ever coming, and in the process, she ends up moving in with him and helping him with his memoir, and, then they fall in love because it is romance.

B&N: I loved it so much. And this was, this was different. So this book is part of the meant to be series. It’s the second book in that series. So it was a little different. It was outside of your norm, there weren’t the same character crossovers. And I think, so I love Disney movies, and I love the reimaginings and I was a little unsure with Beauty and the Beast, because this was not one of my favorite of the Disney movies. Why did you choose Beauty and the Beast for this one?

JG: So I mean, you know, growing up at like, as a really bookworm kid, like Belle was such a, you know, oh, there’s a princess who also loves books, like, just like me. And also I could be a princess too, you know, I mean, that was really sort of feeling that I had and so it was really fun for me to be able to write someone like that. Um, but you know, it is funny, because before I started writing, I rewatched the movie to sort of get, you know, ideas for like fun little easter eggs to put in and stuff and I was like, Okay, so like he actually imprisons her.

B&N: Behind bars.

JG: I don’t want to do that. Yeah, like let’s not, let’s find a different way to do that. So I really wanted to give Isabelle a lot more agency for a lot of parts of the story then Belle had, and really kind of turn some of the stuff that I didn’t like about the movie on its head, while still appreciating all of the kinds of fun stuff that I loved.

B&N: Yes, and I think you did. I really enjoyed this story. It was a lot more really relatable, than I think I expected it to be going into this story. And I think, you know, we fell in love with these characters, it was definitely more of a slow build romance specific, especially compared to the movie because that was instant. And even in comparison to your other stories and the dedication that you made in this book to Black girls, because they can be princesses to really just, I loved it so much, because, you know, we didn’t have our own Disney stories growing up. I feel like that’s what I was always drawn to the brown princesses and the characters that were a little bit more relatable. And I just think it was, I loved it so much.

JG: Thank you so much. And it is funny talking about the slow burn and how that is different than my other bugs. I mean, that was actually one of the big challenges for me in writing this because I knew, I realized that, that by the nature of the story, that’s kind of what it had to be. And none of my other books are like that. And so that took a lot of work to like, figure out okay, how am I gonna? How am I going to get them from here to here to here to like finally, realizing how they feel about each other. And that took a lot of like, work and thought and, and rewriting.

B&N: Yeah, definitely. And this book was, so most, I think all of your other books have had that, you know, the point of view from the woman, the point of view from the man that kind of crosses over. And this book did not do that. How do you tap into the voice of men when you’re writing?

JG: So it’s interesting that you say that, because that was also one of the challenges of this book for me. I mean, I had decided early on that this was going to be just written from Isabelle’s point of view. And then when I started writing it, I realized it and it wasn’t until I was probably almost done with my first draft, that I realized that doing it that way meant that I hadn’t really, I didn’t hadn’t thought as much about both character as I usually do. Because usually when I’m switching back and forth, I’m really thinking about him and what he’s thinking and what he’s feeling at every moment. And so because I wasn’t doing that, you know, I was like, oh, Beau doesn’t feel like a real character. So then kind of going back, I had to make a lot of changes and like, actively think about, what is he thinking, why would he say this? Oh, he wouldn’t. Okay, he would see something different. And so that took a lot of like, work in subsequent drafts to really think him think about him and thinking through and that was really helpful. Once I kind of realized what sort of thought process I had to go through. It made it a lot easier to understand him and figure out his character.

B&N: I feel like that might have also been intentional that your original thought process process wasn’t necessarily on Beau was it that his character wasn’t necessarily the point of you in this story, we’re talking about, you know, Black girls and princesses and, and Black women in publishing. And maybe that voice didn’t need to be told as much?

JG: I really, you know, it felt like this was Isabelle’s story. And I wanted to tell it from her point of view, it is their love story, as well. And so Beau had to be a real character. And I had to understand him and where he was coming from, so that Isabelle could then understand him and so that their relationship could feel real. But I really did want the center of the story to be on her.

B&N: Yes, definitely. I think there were there were so many deeper subjects that were we’re hitting this book that where it was like, the romance is like, I know, this is coming. But it wasn’t even like I was rushing it because the other story was just so involving. And I was like, I want to see how this plays out. I want to see where this goes. And I like the the relationship that they build kind of in support of each other through their differences.

JG: Oh, well, thank you so much. So you are a lawyer, or you were a lawyer?

B&N: You know, once a lawyer, always a lawyer. And in the past tense I am currently not practicing.

B&N: Okay, so I love that because I feel like that is it’s a relatable path for me as well. But I liked I really liked that. You You wrote an article for Catapult, kind of talking about how you got into writing. And I think one of the things that you talked about was, well, first of all the dedication and how you got to writing you know, writing 30 minutes for lunch breaks to one or two hours after your your workday, which I can imagine was already a pretty long work day. And, you know, you kept writing and you didn’t give up and you know, despite the rejections and you kept writing and that was your passion. And I feel like you even kind of touched on a little bit of imposter syndrome, kind of feeling, not necessarily as a writer in the spaces, in rooms with other writers. And I wanted to know how you feel like you overcame that feeling that you didn’t belong in this space?

JG: Yeah, I mean, you know, to a certain extent, there was a lot of fake it till you make it. I’m feeling. And I also think just by doing it over and over again, when I met one writer, Sara Zarr, who is a wonderful young adult writer. Um, we had been like social media friends for a while. And, that was like when I was writing, but sort of keeping it a secret, right. And we met in person when she was in the Bay Area. And she was like, Are you a writer? And I kind of hesitated and she was like, Do you write? And I said, Yes. And she was like, well, then you’re a writer. And I was like, okay, so I try to keep that in my mind. And you know, especially early on, like, I tried to keep that in my mind. Like, I write. So I am writer, but it was definitely hard. At the beginning, especially because, I think so many writers have this story that they started writing at a very young age. And it’s always been their passion. And I came to writing much later in life. And so it felt like I wasn’t, I didn’t have the right to be, you know, to call myself that and to be in those rooms. And I think, just like trying to force myself to do it over and over did really help.

B&N: Yeah, no, definitely. And I think it’s very inspirational for a lot of people who aren’t necessarily sure that they’re on the right path or doubting it and feeling like it’s too late. So yeah, it’s never too late. Always, if you’re, if you want to do it, do it. I love that for you. So thank you. Um, what was the moment that you knew you had it right? Kind of when you made that transition officially, from law to being an author?

JG: I mean, my first book came out and, you know, four and a half years ago, maybe asked me in another five years? I don’t know, like, I think there was never exactly one moment, I think there’s, there are moments in each book, where I know I’m getting it right. You know, there are moments, every time I’m writing where I think, like, where I have just a really great writing day, and I’m so happy I’m doing this, um, but those moments always have their opposite, you know, and in every small rejection or bad review, or like, you know, every kind of weird thing that happens in and outside of publishing, where I think like, is this really for me? So, um, so, you know, maybe someday? I’ll know for sure.

B&N: Okay. Well, I think you’ve made it I think you got it. Why contemporary romance?

JG: You know, it’s funny. So when I first started writing, I was writing an adult, that had been sort of what I was reading a lot of, and also, like, I loved young adult fiction, as a kid, I read so many books, and they were never books about little Black girls rule, or Black teenage girls, you know. And so I was like, I will write one of those. And I did, um, and then I kind of wrote kind of half of another one that I kept working on. Um, but none of those got really any traction, I tried to get an agent with the first one, I got a lot of like, very, very supportive rejections, from agents. And then I started reading a lot of romance and got really into reading it. At first, I was reading a lot of historical romance. And I was like, I love reading this. It’s so much fun. But I don’t think I could write one, I think because I just didn’t think my voice would translate to historical romance. And then I started reading contemporary romance. And I distinctly remember thinking like, oh, yeah, yes. And so then I kind of had the idea for The Wedding Date and started writing it. And I just had so much fun writing it like I think it is because I enjoyed writing it so much that I kind of knew alright, this, you know, I’m going to stick with this. There could be other things in the future. So we’ll see. But I do really love writing contemporary,

B&N: I was going to ask, do you see yourself writing any other genre? That’s hopeful. What are your favorite romance tropes to write about? I think we get all of them in your books. So do you have a favorite that you like to write?

JG: Um, you know, I love fake dating. It’s so much fun for me, I think, as you can tell, because I’ve put it a number of books. I think it’s just sort of fun because it’s often two people, sometimes two strangers, sometimes people who know each other, who are kind of like, forced into this masquerade against the rest of the world and like other people that they know and, you know, they’re like getting to know each other while they’re kind of bonded together because of this, and I think that that can make for so many ways to like discover characters and figure each other out. And also learn about each character individually and then together. So I have a lot of fun, both kind of reading and writing that. But there are like a lot of other kind of fun tropes that I like. And so I’m excited to get to write more.

B&N: Yeah. So I feel like you kind of touched on this a little bit. But in terms of your books, do you have a favorite?

JG: I cannot pick a favorite and my books. I mean, I’ve, you know, I’ve heard someone say like, your favorite child is always the youngest because they need the most from you. And so I always feel like my most recent book, or the one that’s about to come out is like my newest favorite, but that changes each time I have a book come out. So but I do I mean, the thing is, I have such tender feelings towards like, each one of my books for for very different reasons. You know, each one of them has got either gotten me through a hard time or has been special in some way. So I just really love and appreciate them all.

B&N: Okay, I’m gonna double down. What about characters? Do you have a favorite character that you’ve written?

JG: You know, so the interesting thing is, I think about the characters as like couples, right? Like, I, I think about them each in as their relationships in books. So sometimes it’s the couple of new books, but sometimes it’s also I think about their friendships and things like that. So they’re so I can’t really identify specific individuals, but, but I do really love all of the different relationships in my books for a lot of different reasons.

B&N: Okay, that’s fair. I feel like I have a soft spot for Maddie and Theo just because that’s kind of where I came into the series. But then when I read The Royal Holiday, I was like, okay, Mom. Vivian. Again, London.

JG: I loved it. I had a lot of fun with it. Yes.

B&N: So The Wedding Date, The Proposal, The Wedding Party, Royal Holiday, they have all been optioned for movies, with Reese Witherspoon’s Hello, Sunshine productions. Are there any updates on when we might be getting?

JG: No current update.

B&N: So okay. I’ll leave it at that. So Drunk on Love, which are there any Beyonce references there?

JG: It’s funny because they’re Beyonce references in many of my books. And I can’t remember if one made it to this one.

B&N: Well, Drunk on Love is coming out in September, and we get to meet some new characters, we’re drinking wine. Can you can you read let readers know a little bit about this story?

JG: Yeah. So this book is about Margot and Luke. Margot Noble is the co owner of a small family winery in Napa Valley with her brother. And one night she’s, she’s frustrated with stuff going on at the winery and with her brother goes to hang out at her friend’s bar ends up sitting next to a charming stranger and goes home with him that night. The next day, she walks into her winery and discovers that the charming stranger is her new employee. And so that is sort of the beginning of Margot and Luke story, and how the how they figure themselves out is the rest of the book.

B&N: So we did get a little taste of some familiar characters in Drunk on Love. And I’m wondering, are you going to go further with that? Are we going to kind of bring Margot and Luke into the worlds that you’ve already created? Or are we going to branch out and go into a different direction with them?

JG: I don’t know what the next books are. I do think that they you know, once they happen, they will definitely be in new new characters or characters you have met in this book. So but we will see what happened.

B&N: Okay. That sounds good. So, what are you reading right now? Do you have any favorite genres that you enjoy reading?

JG: I have so many I mean, I love reading romance, obviously. I love reading mysteries. Any kind of fun, contemporary fiction. I’m a big fan of right now. I’m reading Counterfeit by Kristen Chen, the Witch it’s funny because I met your son Adam. She lives in the Bay Area. And I met her at an event a few weeks before her book came out. And now it’s the newest Reese Witherspoon pick. So I’m really excited by that. It’s a lot of fun.

B&N: Are you working on anything new right now?

JG: I am trying to take a little break. I have been working a lot over the past few years. So we will we will see what happens next.

B&N: Okay. What have you what do you do kind of to unwind take a break relax, I think You are a yoga fan, I am. I do yoga, you know, one of the things that has been really hard over the past few years, is figuring out how to relax because the pandemic I think, has been so overwhelming and has changed every part of so many of our lives, um, that, you know, usually I would like meet up with friends or go on vacation and like things like that. And we haven’t been able to do so much of that for a while. And so now that some of that’s coming back, I’m really looking forward to that. So I’m going on vacation with a friend soon. And now like I can, like, finish something hard and call a friend and say, Can you meet me for drinks in an hour, and we will do that. And so I think really being able to kind of get my mind off of whatever I was working on, and talk to other people and relax with friends and have fun has been one of the things that I’ve missed the most over the past few years. And I’m excited to be able to do that again.

B&N: Yes, definitely very important to do. Is there anything that you want listeners to know about By the Book, or Drunk on Love or anything that I may have missed in this conversation?

JG: I had so much fun writing Drunk on Love. I’ve written three books in the pandemic. Now, I hope, I hope that by the time I write another one pandemic is really over. But I was really an escape. For me, I think all three of the books that I have written during the pandemic have really been my way of like, going into another world and finding a place where none of this was happening. And that I could just relax and have fun. And so I hope that my books are that kind of fun, joyous of maybe slightly salacious time for readers to because that’s what, that’s what I enjoyed as I was writing them.

B&N: Yeah, definitely. What would you say is kind of been the most challenging part of writing three books during the pandemic? And was there a thought and maybe too, I don’t know, maybe when it comes to touring and talking about your books and kind of having those moments in person with your fans and being able to like, has that changed any releasing these books now?

JG: You know, so I’ve released three books during the pandemic now, Party of Two, which you mentioned, that came out in the summer of 2020. And then, While We Were Dating, that came out in the summer of 2021, and then just By the Book, so the first two, I did not get to see anybody in person, it was all virtual events. And then by the book, I got to do a bunch of events in person and meet a bunch of readers. And it was just so wonderful to get to meet readers in person. Again, I think it has been really great to be able to do virtual events, especially because so many people who don’t live in places where authors generally get to tour have gotten to join in, and that has been really lovely. Um, but I think there’s, there’s nothing like getting to see and talk to readers in person. And like, really talk about what books what the books have meant to you and have them tell me what my books have been to them. Like, it really means so much for me to hear that and have those real conversations. So that has been really wonderful. And really inspiring. I mean, I think, you know, the first two, in some ways, the release kind of felt imaginary. Like up until over these past few months, when in getting to do more in person events. Like, I didn’t see a single human being who wasn’t like related to me holding either either of those first two books, you know, and so that really made a difference in like, talking to people and seeing like, Okay, people actually did read this book, you know, and so that was that was really wonderful.

B&N: Your covers, you have very cute covers, I feel like they have kind of even maybe they’re evolving. I feel like Drunk on Love has a very different cover than The Wedding Date had. And I want to know, like, what, what is your what’s your process with picking your covers? What goes into that?

JG: Oh, my goodness. I mean, first of all, all credit goes to the wonderful art teams at my publishers like they have done incredible jobs. Usually, my editor and I will have a conversation about the cover early on. Sometimes it’s before they have even gotten the manuscript from me, depending on like where you know, where my deadline is, in relation to like, where we need to get a cover. And so I will like sort of give them lots of like phrases. Say like, what I want the book to feel like and then They come back to me with these incredible covers like, with drunk on love. They came with, like, four different options. And I was like, they’re all wonderful. So, I showed them to my friends, like, what do you think? And so, I mean, they have really done a great, great job.

B&N: Yes, they love them. So, before I let you go, I feel like there are so many things that readers have come to love from reading your books. And there’s that classic Jasmine Guillory feel that you give us in your stories. And I think there are a lot of different elements that you could kind of pick up on. And you know, these are important things to you. These are maybe hobbies or interests of yours. And I feel like Oakland, while it may not always be a setting in every book, or the main setting, I think it definitely shows up in every book at some point. So why is Oakland so special?

JG: I grew up here. My family is all I mean, my parents were both born and raised in the Bay Area. You know, both sides of my family, my grandparents came here. And I think this is a place that I have really, you know, I know, I know it so well. Like I know it by heart and all of the schools and the people. And like, I mean, there’s, you know, I will like run into someone in the grocery store that like my uncle went to high school with, right. And so I think there’s so much about Oakland that I love the diversity, the food, the like, the weather, but also the community. I mean, I think it has always been a really tight community that cares about its people. And that’s something that you know, it has changed a lot over the past few years. But that’s something that I really hope never changes.

B&N: That sounds like Margo. So, another thing food, we’re always we’re eating good. There’s going to be pastries, there’s going to be desserts, there’s going to be taco trucks. What what’s your favorite snack?

JG: I gotta say cheese and crackers. Yeah. I feel like that is the ultimate best snack. And that’s a staple. Yes.

B&N: What’s your favorite meal?

JG: Oh, that’s really hard. It might have to be tacos. Okay, but I might. Tomorrow if you asked me that question. I may have a different answer.

B&N:That’s fair. That’s fair. Do you have a favorite go to Taco spot?

JG: Yes, there’s a place near my house that I go to a lot. But I also make tacos a lot. So I feel like I feel like tacos are often my kind of default meal when I like, only have a handful of stuff in the house. Because if you have tortillas and like, some sort of meat or beans or cheese, I always have avocados around like I can pull it together some tacos.

B&N: Yeah, love avocados. Yes. So red lipstick. You’re wearing it. I almost wore it. But I was like, I can’t pull it off at the same way that you can. What is your favorite red lipstick brand?

JG: Oh my goodness. I mean, that’s like asking me my favorite character. Um, you know, I do really love the one I have on right now. Which is Lisa Eldridge. Velvet ribbon. Okay, it is a very good classic red and it’s like feels really good on the lips and stays on well, so I’m a big fan of it. But there’s also like they’re Pat McGrath has some really great red lipsticks. YSL has something that I love. Sephora. They’re like long wearing lipstick in like, oh one is fantastic. So there are a bunch of great ones.

B&N: Speaking my language. Red wine or white wine?

JG: It depends on the weather. You know, summer, warm weather. I will love a crisp white or even rose. Um, but yeah, but in the wintertime, I drink a lot of red.

B&N: Okay, that makes sense. I feel like I know the answer to this one. But text messages or phone calls?

JG: You know, that’s a harder one. Because that sort of depends on my mood and who who I’m talking to. So like I will. There’s like certain friends of mine. We almost never text we just call some people I sort of go back and forth with and then some people I mostly just text. So really kind of depends on the relationship and where you are. But I think there’s a great place for both.

B&N: Yes, if anybody’s asking why any of these questions are being brought up. This is your sign to get into Jasmine Guillory’s books. Jasmine Guillory, this was an honor. By the Book is out now. Drunk on Love will be out September 20. Jasmine, thank you so much for joining us on Poured Over.

JG: Thank you so much for having me this was so much fun.