Poured Over: Phoebe Robinson on Please Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes
Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes (Signed Book)
Hardcover $27.00
Please Don't Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes (Signed Book)
In Stock Online
Hardcover $27.00
“I was honing my writing voice before anyone knew anything or cared about me as a writer.” Phoebe Robinson’s a force of nature with her standup shows, podcasts, TV shows and books. And now she’s adding publisher to her list of accomplishments with her new imprint, Tiny Reparations Books. Phoebe joins us on the show to talk about her newest book, Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes, her new imprint and the incredible debut authors she’s publishing, black hair, performative allyship and more. Featured books: Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes by Phoebe Robinson, What the Fireflies Knew by Kai Harris, Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Li, Queenie by Candace Carty-Williams, Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid and Red at the Bone by Jacqueline Woodson. Produced/Hosted by Elani Wilson and engineered by Harry Liang.
Poured Over is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays.
“I was honing my writing voice before anyone knew anything or cared about me as a writer.” Phoebe Robinson’s a force of nature with her standup shows, podcasts, TV shows and books. And now she’s adding publisher to her list of accomplishments with her new imprint, Tiny Reparations Books. Phoebe joins us on the show to talk about her newest book, Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes, her new imprint and the incredible debut authors she’s publishing, black hair, performative allyship and more. Featured books: Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes by Phoebe Robinson, What the Fireflies Knew by Kai Harris, Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Li, Queenie by Candace Carty-Williams, Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid and Red at the Bone by Jacqueline Woodson. Produced/Hosted by Elani Wilson and engineered by Harry Liang.
Poured Over is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher. New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Full transcript for this episode:
B&N: Hello and welcome to Poured Over: The Barnes and Noble Podcast. Today we have New York Times bestselling author, comedian actress producer, Phoebe Robinson, who you may know as the co host of the podcast to Dope Queens and the HBO special of the same name as well as her solo podcast. So Many White Guys, the film’s What Men Want, Ibiza, which is currently on Netflix, and maybe you’ve seen her new show on Comedy Central, doing the most with Phoebe Robinson. Phoebe is the author of you can’t touch my hair and other things. I still have to explain. Everything’s trash, but it’s okay. And her third and newest book, Please Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes. Phoebe. We are so excited to have you with us today. How are you?
Phoebe Robinson: I’m well. Thank you for having me on. I’m so excited. I love books. I love selling books. I love all the things.
B&N: Great. Great. I sure I missed something in your introduction because a working woman okay. Anything I missed that you want to add then? Please feel free.
PR: Yeah, I have a stand up special coming out for HBO Max as well. So yeah.
B&N: Awesome. Yeah.
PR: Um, oh, I’m not sure if the title has been cleared yet. I think it will be soon. Yeah.
B&N: Okay. So Please Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes is the first book published under your imprint, Tiny Rep Books. Can you tell us about that?
PR: Yeah, I’m really excited. No, I take this cough drop. I feel like I’ve been talking so much. So my I feel like every day my voice is like a little hoarse. But you know what, it’s gonna affect the sound. So. Yeah, I’m really excited. So please don’t sit is the first book from the imprint and I’m really pumped about the imprint. It’s something that I have always wanted ever since I met my literary agent Robert back in 2014. And you know, pre-COVID. Remember those times were the before times, I had an exploratory call with plume was my publisher on my previous two books about doing an imprint. I was like, I just was like, I don’t know if it’s the right time. I have all these other projects going on. But I just kind of wanted to see like what’s happening. And then COVID happened and like kind of the world stopped. And you know, we’re all sort of slightly flailing a little bit. And I had an idea for this essay collection. The first essay I wrote was hashtag corne, about quarantine with my boyfriend. And I was like, Oh, I have this idea for this essay collection just about all the things I’ve sort of been thinking about, like whether it’s performance of ally ship, self care industry, becoming a boss, like all these things. And so I told my agent, I was like, well, maybe we should try and like shop this around. And he was like, Well, why don’t we shop this around with your idea for an imprint? And I was like, I don’t know. It’s coving there’s so much heaviness in the world. I don’t think anyone like like, come out with the imprint right now just feels really inconsequential, and like, not important. And he was like, every day you’d like get up to read like that’s we always tell him you start your day with like reading for hours, because it’s the one sense of normalcy. He’s like, so many people are doing that. So now is the right time. And so we went to Plum, we say, here’s this book proposal from my essay collection. And here’s what I want to do with this imprint. Let’s make it happen. And we did. And I’m really stoked about it. It is literary fiction, nonfiction. We’re branching into poetry, which I’m really excited about. We have 11 books on the slate, including mine. And all the books are from debut authors, which I’m really stoked about us the thing I’m most excited about, of all the things with the imprint. And we just want it to be a place where women people of color people from the queer community to have a platform to get their work published, as I knew how hard it was for me to get my first book published in 2015. So we’re like, eff that. There’s gonna be no bullshit with us. And like, here we are.
B&N: Great. That sounds great. Can you tell us a little bit about the debut authors that we can expect me imprint?
PR: Yeah. So February 1, will be the book What the Fireflies knew by Kai Harris and it’s a coming of age story about a preteen. Her name is KB her father passes away from drug use. And so her mom sends her her older sister to go stay with their grandfather for the summer. And it’s just Yes, it deals with grief a little bit, but it’s also about like, what it means to be like a preteen girl and sort of like trying to find your way in the world and trying to establish your independence and like, Oh, I like a boy and what does that mean? Like how do I express that? I can’t talk to my older sister because she like does not want to deal with me because she’s like, 15/16 She’s out here like dating boys real she doesn’t have time for my ass. And it’s just like a really moving tale. And I truly like I think my page shows like I have to have this book was coming out February 1, and then our next book after that this coming out April is called Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Li, and she wrote this book while in medical school. So I will never complain about writing a book ever. And it’s a story of 520 Something Chinese American to get hired to still Chinese artifacts in our work from museums and bring it back to China. So it deals with, of course, identity and family, but it really has that hooky sort of Ocean’s 11 like art heist, and you’re like, you’re reading it, you’re like, Oh, my God, I hope that they’re not going to get caught, and Baba Baba. And that got optioned by by Netflix to be a limited series, I believe. And so I’m really excited about those first two books are coming out. And we have a biography by tourmaline on Marsha P. Johnson, that’s coming out. So we have like a lot of stuff in the works. I’m really, really excited.
B&N: That sounds great. I’m excited to read those. Hey, oh, you said that the motivation behind wanting to start this imprint to highlight people of color and unrepresentative communities is because of your experience and what you dealt with. So for the process of you actually pitching the imprint? Was it a smooth process? Were they all on board from the very beginning? Was it pretty smooth?
PR: So my publisher over at Plume that I work with is Christine ball. And she’s amazing. And she was involved in my first two books. So I think I think sometimes when people have a little bit of a platform, they’re like, Oh, but I have an imprint. You know, sometimes publishers are like, do you really want to do the work of an imprint? Or you just want to say you have one, but I think they saw you know how hard I was working on the first two books. So they really believe that I was gonna, you know, like, when I went into that meeting with them, I had like a mission statement, I had the audience I wanted to reach I like did my research on like, what sort of outlets would be good book clubs, like all this stuff. So I saw that I was really serious about this. And it wasn’t just a vanity project. And so when we’re having the conversations, I felt like they went relatively smooth, especially like once we were sort of finalizing things. This is, shortly after the hashtag publishing pay me came out, I was just like, listen, like, I’m not going to do this, if we’re not going to make some changes here. And you know, one of the key things that I think publishing is still so behind on is the marketing and publicity side, it doesn’t matter where you go, it’s predominantly white, which we have authors of color authors in the queer community. And you don’t even have any one representative of those communities who know like which outlets to reach out to. That’s also you’re not marketing the book as well as you can. And so we have it that my personal PR team, which is run by Sam, she’s Indian, and her partner is Brittany, and she’s black. And so we were like, they have to be involved in the publicity aspect of the books. And, you know, I just really feel like publishing said a lot. And so now we have to really do a lot. And I don’t want it to just be like, well, there’s tiny reparations books, and like Roxane Gay has her imprint. So like, the work is done. It’s like, No, it’s great that we have these things, but you guys also need to do internal work. And so that’s really sort of, you know, my I have those conversations with Christine. She really fully understood. She was like, I understand how important this is to you. So we will make that happen. And it was, it’s really good to have a partner who is like, I want to let you lead the way on that. Like, I don’t need to weigh in and be like, Well, I don’t think he should do this. Like she really trust me when I say things like this. And so it’s been really smooth sailing so far, which is great.
B&N: That is awesome. I’m so glad to hear it. So, for your book, don’t sit on. Yes, you’re gonna get it.
PR: Get my light. Hold on. I’ll get my book. Let me I have it. But I have my book as well. You guys. I’m so excited about this book. But I was like, I’m looking real shadowy over here. I’m like, is this phantom of the opera? Let me get my shit together. Okay, there we go. There we go.
B&N: It has been an ongoing struggle with virtual meetings to make sure that my lighting is right. See me? Yes, Black Girl problems. Please Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes. What was your writing process like for this book?
PR: Ooh. So I live in a two bedroom apartment with my boyfriend. So we turned the dining room table into my desk. And that was right between the couch and the kitchen. So I wrote the book from that desk. I went to a couple of hotels in the city twice, to be able to just like I can wake up and just write all day and then go to sleep. It’s hard to do that when you’re quarantining with someone else. They’re like, Okay, well, I’m here But yeah, I think the writing process was sort of like, I don’t wanna say was a nice distraction. But it was, it was good to look forward to something that as much as I touch on like serious topics in the book, I think it truly is a funny book. So it really was a nice escape to be like, I’m gonna work on something funny. Just try and make myself laugh. But yeah, it’s it’s weird to like write a book during COVID. Because you’re just sort of like, Okay, I gotta write this thing. And certain like, the world is falling apart. So there’s a lot of compartmentalizing that was happening. But this be my third book, I think. I think it’s the best book I’ve written. I think my writing has gotten better. I think I, you know, can deliver a joke better. And so I think for me, it’s something that I’m really proud of. And I think the writing process was easier because I know what my voice is, at this point, I know how to tell a story and when I’m trying to make an argument. And so it was really exciting. And of course, because it is the first book watching the imprint, I was just like, I really want this to be good. Like, I don’t want it to be trash. I felt like a little bit of pressure. But I was just trying to remember just like focus on the book, and don’t think about anything else. Mm hmm.
B&N: I’ve enjoyed all of your books. First, let me say that this was probably your most relatable book for me on so many levels. And I really just enjoyed it. And I think you have this great knack for capturing the signature Phoebe Robinson voice in your work, like your hashtags, the abbreviations, even in your footnotes, it’s like I can hear her voice when I’m reading this book. And I’m wondering, is that by design? Or is that? Just a happy coincidence?
PR: Yeah, it’s by design. And yeah, I went to I went to private to to and study writing, I graduated in 2006. You do the math. And then, after I started, standup in 2008, I started a blog, probably whatever girls came out, because my first blog post was about girls. And I was like, random black people. That was like 2011. And so I really, I would do that blog, I write three blog posts a week. And I don’t know, I had an audience of maybe like, 100 people if that. Yeah, that’s a decent, like I saw, like, built my way up. And I would post on Facebook, and like, Hey, guys, this is my latest blog posts, I click on the link. And so that is sort of like how I kind of like found my voice and really discovered it and honed it and then doing all these freelance writing jobs and sort of having to figure out like how to, like, make my voice fit vulture or what have you, but still keep my essence, I think they’re really sort of develop that skill set. So over the past, like, decade of like writing these books, and blogging, like I really figured out, like, you know, I was talking to someone else about this, like, I think like black writers, in particular, not every single one, but a lot of them could feel the pressure of like, this has to fit within the African American canon of James Baldwin and my Angelou and Toni Morrison. And that’s just not me. But that doesn’t mean that my work is less valuable or less interesting. So I kind of want to take the piss out of like, this has to be like, super serious. And I want to have fun. So like when I’m playing with language that way or doing the hashtags is sort of like, let’s not take all of this too seriously. We still want to be entertained and move to read the book. But we also want to have fun as well. Right? Yeah.
B&N: So I think a lot of Black people can relate on the feeling of sometimes being placed as the representation for the whole race and your books talk about being Black. It’s obviously it’s your personal experience. But do you ever feel that pressure that you’re representing Black people, when you write, and even if it’s your story, you have to kind of represent Black people in a certain way?
PR: Yeah, I think the way that I write I’m just like, I just have to write as if no one I know will ever read this. And that’s just like how I could get through because I think otherwise, if you like, sort of absorb that pressure and have that top of mind, it’s gonna affect your writing, and most likely not for better, but for worse, and so for me, I just tried to tell my truth, as purely as possible, as funny as possible. Yeah, I just really just some sort of, like, I don’t think that Stephen King is writing with, like, I gotta represent white guys with glasses. You know, um, you know that demo. So, like, I really just want to just write for like myself. I think about all the writers that I love, whether it’s like, you know, Roxane Gay or Sam or B or Nora Ephron face sounds so specifically them and they’re telling their truth, and that’s why they resonate. Um, am I so if I could do that, like if someone in the black community feels like this book doesn’t represent them, that’s okay. There’s another book that they will read that will represent them more. Or they will feel more representative. And that’s totally fine. And yeah, I just want to take the pressure off like, I don’t have to be everything to every black person. Right. And I think I have a lot of joy in my writing because I’m just releasing myself from that pressure.
B&N: Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Okay, let’s get into this cover really quick. No, with all of your book, there is one thing. Oh, you got all the books? Yeah. The most. And that is this afro. Ah, ha. Can you tell us why the afro was your choice hairstyle in your cover art.
PR: I think it’s just so eye grabbing afros are so beautiful. And there’s so amazing. And there’s so fun and artful. And I’m just like, with each book, I told my mom, I was like, We were joking that one day, we’re just gonna have a book cover where I’m just butt ass naked and just covered in hair. But I think it just like, you know, like, I look at this cover, I’m like, Oh, who’s this like, chick? Like, it just makes you want to go? Like, who is this person? And where are they thinking? And, you know, I think it just definitely, like, represents that sort of like confidence in your blackness that I really love. But I think any black person, no matter how they wear their hair, it represents that confidence. But I don’t know, I just feel like it’s just like the running theme. And like, you know how like Adele just has like her album covers just like her face. I’m like, I think, you know, my book covers are going to have like the afro not that, Adele, and are the same, but you know.
B&N: So, hair is a reoccurring theme in your books as well. And so obviously, it is very important to you. So my question, I guess, for you is, what does your hair mean for you? Mm, Black hair specifically?
PR: Yeah, I mean, desert writing this book is sort of an ongoing journey. And what I’m liking is that the older I get, I just have more respect for my hair. I like fall in love with it more. And so for me, I just feel like Black hair represents like, versatility and power and beauty and confidence in history. And just so many magical wonderful things. I follow the hashtag foresee hair, and also like hashtag black hair. But sometimes if you follow hashtag Black hair on Instagram, it’s just like, the way check. I’m like, you know, I did not mean to leave, y’all. But when I follow these hashtags, and get to see like, all the ways that people are super creative with their hair, and everything just gets me like so excited. It’s such a great vehicle for expression. And it’s really cool. And do I wish I like knew how to do my hair like they do in the tutorials? Yes, I don’t really, but it’s cool to sort of like marvel at it.
B&N: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I regret is not jumping on that YouTube train back when and started my own channel. So you said you started writing during the pandemic? I’m thinking probably towards the end of 2020, based on the summer of 2020. That took place.
PR: Yeah. So I sold the book in this early summer. So I think I started writing it in July. Okay. Yes, that tracks Yeah.
B&N: So we saw a lot of mostly white people beginning to get more involved in the conversation and wanting to read more books about Yeah, blackness, I guess to put it simply. And you talk about performative allyship. And not necessarily kind of diving into the full story of blackness, just kind of doing a little bit of it. Only part of the story. And Black people are so multi dimensional. There’s so many different types of Black people. Can you talk a little bit about the performative allyship aspect of that?
PR: Yeah, it was just such a strange time to be alive. You know what I write about this in the book this sort of like oh, awakening air quotes that white people have that like racism happens and black people getting murdered for the color of their skin and it was such a like, I don’t know, it’s sort of felt like I used to love the show twilight zone when I was a kid because it was just like, so weird and kooky and I was like, This feels like a twilight zone where like every white versus now a social justice warrior. And they’re all like, I only shop at like black owned businesses and you know, like, what? What, like, we don’t want you to change your personality, like, they’re so like, I’m just gonna like, this like that I’m a one woman lighting crew here. Okay, this is gonna die to him 10 minutes anyway, lol, it was just such an overcorrection and missing the point and like, yes, shopping at black owned businesses is great. That’s literally the easiest thing that you can do. Like, you know, like, buy my book is like, easy. But that does not mean that you have reconciled your feelings about black people, because you bought my book, you know what I mean? You know, I was always like, I really need y’all to like, do the work and do it privately a little bit, that there were so much like signalling, like, look at what I’m doing or look at what I’m reading or I’m vouching for this person now. And I’m just like, it’s in your day to day actions. You know what I mean? It’s like, what neighborhoods do you live in? You can buy, you know, my book, or you could buy Sam herb, these books. But then if you’re moving to a neighborhood and helping gentrify it, then how much good are you doing? You know what I mean? And so I just want people to live in a way that’s not concerned with being on the right side of history, and is actually concerned with fundamentally making things better. And sort of understanding like, it was so wild to see white people on social media being like, how come the police has not been defended yet. And I’m like, Bitch, you just heard about this two weeks ago, there have been activists working for decades trying to get this happen. And this isn’t making a complaint at the Genius Bar at the Apple Store, on your phone, like, it’s not something that we’re going to fix in two weeks, or two years, or even 20 years. So I think there’s just a fundamental lack of understanding of what the work needs to be about. And instead, there was a lot of just sort of reactionary, sort of major Karen vibes, that was just like, I’m gonna get myself worked up and you’re like, Okay, well, okay, like, or just like when, you know, someone people like call you and be like, Hey, I just want to check in on you. And like, we don’t need this, I don’t need you to check in on me, I truly don’t need the phone call, like, just just focus on like, what’s being taught in your schools like, that is a thing that you could do. But that requires more effort than like sending an attack. So I think, but I think last year, my frustration was sort of like, there’s a lot of kicking and screaming, but I don’t know if the needle is being moved at all. And I think as we look at things this year, in 2021, it’s sort of like, I don’t really know how much has changed,
B&N: Like, where did it go? What happened?
PR: Yeah, I’m like, I don’t think publishing looks that much different. I don’t think Hollywood has changed that much. I don’t think most industries have changed that much. And so I just want it to be more than lip service. And I think we all know that it mostly was just lip service.
B&N: Mm hmm. I think it was a very draining experience for a lot of us. And I know, I personally had to kind of take a step back from social media, society, everything was a lot going on. And you describe yourself as a workaholic. And I have to say, You look like you have been thriving throughout the pandemic. What kind of things do you do to make sure you stay in a good headspace?
PR: Hmm, my number one thing is I don’t doom scroll. So it’s like, I want to be aware of what’s going on the news. But I think, you know, social media is designed to get you addicted to it. So I’m like, if I want to read the news, I want to like learn some things, but I’m like, I don’t want to just stay and like see every negative thing that’s coming out. So that’s number one. Number two, I went into therapy there to sort of like, you know, work through sort of my addiction to work, which just like only intensified during COVID? Because like, that was the way I coped. Yeah. And I also have a life coach, too. Like, I know, this sounds like a lot. I know, it’s very privileged. And I completely understand it, if people are rolling their eyes, but I think in general to sort of survive COVID You just need some outside, help if you can afford it. And that’s a whole other thing with the therapy and self care industry and how it’s not. It’s not really made to be easily accessible, which is a whole other topic, but having those conversations with people and sort of talking about how to keep my mental on track and sort of like, well, why are you Like trying to work so much. And then you realize, oh, well, it’s fear base because I’m worried that like, you know, if I don’t work like this, what if like I hit like a road bump and I don’t have work for like a year. And so you unpack these things sort of realize, like, at the root of it, it has to be about what the intentionality is. And I think I’m trying to do less things now. But things that I A either care about, or can really devote my energy to, as opposed to like, Oh, I gotta say yes to everything, because the house is on fire, and oh, my God, there’s not enough water. And but, you know, it takes a lot of work to like, sort of undo that. And you know, of course, the hustle and grind helped me get to this point. But then now it’s it’s sort of pivoting and figuring out what I want to do for the next 10 years. So it’s going to be more impactful for me personally, but yeah, it’s a struggle. I know. So many people are are workaholics and really trying to figure it out. And this notion of a work life balance, I don’t even know if that’s necessarily what we should be aiming for. Because they’re not necessarily two diametrically opposed things for certain people. But yeah, it’s tricky. It’s tricky to get a handle on it, but I’m trying to do the best I can. And like for every sort of, like, cool thing I announce, there are a multitude of things that like fell apart or didn’t work out. So as what I always say on like, social media is like 10% of the truth.
PR: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I know it’s it’s kind of always like a backhanded compliment when someone tells you, Oh, you’re handling it so well, because it’s not that you want to handle it. Well. It’s just yeah, sometimes you don’t have any choice but to. Yeah, so I get that too. You incorporate a lot of information and statistics and data. And you can tell you are just a very smart woman. And I’m curious what your research process is when you’re incorporating it into your stories, because it’s like layered with with humor and all this, but it’s like, oh, my gosh, I had no idea that was a thing. I feel like I learned so many things about hair, especially through your book. And is it just like your natural instinct to just kind of research things? Or do you quickly?
PR: Yeah, yeah, I mean, especially like, because, you know, with a joke, you want to get it right, you want to make sure it’s bulletproof. And also, like a curious person. So I kind of want to be like, Oh, what is the history of this? Why do I you know, like, when I was writing the essay about my hair was sort of like looking at like, yeah, how do you foresee here become this like horrific thing that everyone wants to avoid? Not everyone work, what we’re conditioned to avoid to want to have. And so that, like, got me down that path. But usually my process for any sort of writing is like, I usually just sort of like free write, and sort of like loosely, some kind of blueprint, like, here are the points that I want to make. This kind of makes me think of this funny thing. So like, I’ll fact check to make sure that sounds right. And then oh, if I want to make this point, then I need to like back it with research. And so they’ll like set me on a thing. And then I sort of like Frankenstein it together a little bit. And then I like smoothed out all the edges. And then like, added some stuff. Once everything is smoothed out. I feel like each essay is sort of like putting together a puzzle. And I get smarter because I write these books. I like Oh, cool. I’ve noticed now this is great. Yeah.
B&N: And so since your your three books are all considered essays, and you’ve now got this imprint, do you have any plans to write a different type of book in the future?
PR: I do. Yeah. Do I want my next book to be a novel? Hmm. And I’m like, This is great. Because, you know, you don’t have to, like you don’t have to like put the essay collection you just like write the proposal, then like you have to go off and write well, the novel, you have to write the whole thing before you like show it to anyone. So I’m like, Oh, I could take my time. It might take me like five years. But I’m really looking forward to that. I’ve been reading like, a lot of like fiction work and stuff. I’m currently reading this. I’m like 100 pages into Queenie right now, which I think is really good. I’ve been reading a lot of Sally Rooney realized, I haven’t been reading a lot of fiction novels by men. So I might like just throw a couple in there. He wants to know, like, every time I go to the bookstore, I’m like, Okay, I’m just gonna like buy some books and take myself on an artist date and I came back home and I had bought like nine books and they’re all like by Black people. And I was like, Oh, I wanted to get in like Black woman predominantly, I’m going to get like one male perspective in here because like, whoops.
B&N: What would you say is your favorite genre to read?
PR: Oh, that changes. I say, essay collections might be my favorite. Just because, you know, you can be like, Okay, I’m gonna read like these three essays, and I’m done for the day. But like, when you’re reading a novel, especially if it’s like, really good, like, I remember when I was reading was such a fun age and read at the bottom, I was just like, sat on the couch. And I was like, look at the towels like, Okay, I’m gonna stop at one o’clock. And I’m like reading and reading. And I’m like, I have to pace myself, because I don’t want to go through this book so fast. And I feel like it essay collections, like, you know, you could just like read at your own leisure, and it’s totally fine. But when you get into a novel, your ass will get like numb if you don’t like stop.
B&N: Well, I read your book in like a day and a half. So a really good book, it’s a good book. You’ve also started a production company of the same name, Tiny Reparations. So the Comedy Central show is part of this. Do you have any other upcoming shows planned for this production company?
PR: Yeah, so the special coming out on this fall, it would be that and then I’m developing, everything’s trash as a TV show with free form. So hopefully, we’ll get a series order for that. So we’re still in the middle of the development process on that. And then I think we have like, maybe like, five to seven shows in various stages of development, just because we have an animated series that we’re really excited about. We’re trying to get into a one hour drama space, and maybe just develop like one drama and like the majority be comedy. So we’re really excited in my head development is Jose Acevedo. And he’s really smart and funny, and our tastes overlaps in certain ways. And then other ways it doesn’t like I haven’t watched a lot of animated since I was like in high school. And he’s like a big anime animated person. When he brought this project to me. I was like, Oh, this project is so cool. And so like, now we like sewed into a network and we’re developing it. And I’m really excited about it. But I don’t know, if you would ask me year ago, would have an animated show on the slate I probably would have been like, I don’t think so. But, you know, here we are. And I’m really, really excited about it.
B&N: Yeah, so I feel like in this last year and a half or so, especially, we’ve been seeing a lot of limited series and series that are based on books. Yeah, that’s something that you’re interested in. Or you could see yourself kind of doing that crossover.
PR: Yeah, I mean, I love limited series. I as much as I love American TV, I’ve always been into the UK model of just like, you know, like, I love the show catastrophe. And I think that was like six episode seasons. I think fleabag was six episodes. I love chewing gum was like, what was it like? Eight? Yeah, so yeah, juicy. Yeah, and I love that kind of stuff. So I would love to get into the limited series space and just be like, we’re gonna do six episodes, eight episodes, and then move the EFF on. Like, I love that. That’s yeah.
B&N: Okay, that sounds great. I know that your path to becoming an author may have been a little different just because of your place in the industry. When we do like live events on social media, we get a lot of people asking, you know, like, how do I get published? And I’m wondering, do you have any advice or feedback for those people?
PR: Being on the other side of it now, is so interesting. So I would say first, really make sure your writing is like on point like, for me, I was talking to someone the other day, they’re like, do you think you’ll always write a book proposal before you sell a book and I’ll say 100%, because you need to know where the hell you’re going. And I think it’s very easy to be like, oh, I’ll just figure out as I write, and I’m like, good luck with that, that’s gonna be a shit show. So I really feel like having a plan for what your story is going to be and honing your writing. Like, all those years, I like, bro, you know, like freelance for like, 50 bucks. And like all that, like went into like my first book. And I was able to get it done. Because I just have an experience of like working on deadline. I was like honing my writing voice before anyone knew anything or cared about me as a writer. And I think that that was like so invaluable that was able to, like, learn what works for me what doesn’t work like to like, brush up on my weaknesses. So I would say that’s versus like, really do your homework and make sure that your writing is as undeniable as possible. Second, I would say get a literary agent, because I really just don’t know how you can break through and publishing with the way it’s set up without an agent. And you really want to have someone that’s really going to fight for you that’s really invested in your work. And the third thing I would say would be to learn about the business side of things. And I think it’s really tricky because, you know, all that stuff is like held held close to the vest. And so it’s really hard sometimes to sort of figure out what is the right thing that I’m supposed to be doing or how much should I ask for like this contract is like doesn’t make any sense. And if you can get a lawyer, get one, even if it’s just for that one project, like that’s what I did, I now have a lawyer on retainer, but for the longest time, I was like, Hey, Josh, can you like, look this over? Here, my pennies is okay. As you really want to arm and protect yourself and make making sure you’re getting the best advances possible, making sure that you’re going to get the best amount of royalties as possible. And then the final thing is like, whatever you want to write about, or revision as a book, just think about it been a two year process. So if you write essay collections, if it’s a novel, oh, probably a bit longer than that. But just the minimum is going to be a two year commitment. Is this something you’re really going to be excited about two years from now? Is it really something that you’re going to want to do, you know, six, seven drafts on a couple of polishes on and if you don’t feel like you have it in your heart to commit to doing all that hard work to get it to be the book of your dreams, then like, don’t write it, because you’re only going to waste your time and other people’s time. So just really understand that editing is the heat. And revising is the biggest part of the process.
B&N: Do you feel like you’ve kind of always had a little bit of like a business savvy mindset to you? Or was this stuff that you’ve kind of you had to hire people, you had to get a team and get to the point where you felt confident in this space?
PR: Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve always been business savvy, but I think I’ve always kind of like I people watch and go, Okay, this was this person’s do and how they got there. And I still do this all the time. Like, whenever someone’s like, interesting to me in business or in Hollywood or whatever. I just look them up on Wikipedia, and I just, like read their whole life story. I’m like, Oh, they did this is that, oh, they met this person. Okay, all they start out this way. I love watching documentaries. I just watched a documentary on David Geffen. And I mean, like, obviously, like some of the things I could not do, because he’s like a white dude. Like, he just would like go and be like yelling and screaming and getting the deal closed. So I’m like, I can’t do that part. But it was just like, really interesting to see like, how he came up with music and like, how he like hustled and all that kind of stuff. And you sort of learned that, like, anyone who’s successful has kind of just been like, oh, this doors closed. So I’m just gonna work around this way and get in. So I think I just pick up on that. And I just tried to figure out what works for my personality and temperament and like, what doesn’t, but yeah, I just am always like, as a woman, especially as a woman of color. I just have never wanted to put myself in a precarious position, business wise. So I think I’ve been hypersensitive to like, educate as I go on. The learning never stops. And yeah, it’s been good for me.
B&N: That’s great. I love it. Phoebe Robinson’s newest book of essays: Please Don’t Sit on My Bed in Your Outside Clothes is out on 9/28, which is also Phoebe’s birthday. So wish her happy birthday, support her buy her book. Phoebe, thank you so much for joining us today. This was great.
PR: Thank you so much for having me this. Oh, I love talking about books more than almost anything else. So this is great. So thank you so much for having the perfect lighting from the beginning. I did not but lesson learned. And like your questions were so thoughtful and it was really you have just such a warm spirit about you. So this was fantastic.
B&N: Thank you. I appreciate that.